To think at a private school, it’s not the teachers that are better...

[Caitlin555]

....it’s just you are less likely to get the bad behaviour, and more likely to have smaller class sizes?

It drives me mad that there’s this perception that the teachers at private schools are so much better than at state. They are not. In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

It is obviously easier to get good results and control a class when you’ve got a smaller class of (probably) better behaved, more affluent kids whose parents want them to be there and to not have the social problems that some schools contend with.

I wish parents would just be honest about why they are sending their kids to x private school - it might be the small class sizes, it might be the facilities, it might be that it is super selective - but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

And no, I’m not a teacher.

I haven’t read the whole thread which I know is a crime but my experience is the kids are all the same they just can afford to buy the drugs, EDs are rife as are MH issues

Surreygirl why do you teach in private schools if you are politically on the left considering the Labour Party is opposed to private education?

@surreygirl1987

Interesting answers

My old school did have an art teacher who was an overt socialist which was quite brave and there was a fair amount of banter with pupils. On the whole the politics of teachers wasn't that apparent.

Pupils on the whole were predominantly conservative.

I guess a lot of private schools have traditions e.g. gown wearing for teachers at certain times which was a little strange. It was if 50s style teaching was being propagated to the 90s.

With regard to pastoral school I think there were (though this was some time ago) teachers that lacked empathy (something of the stiff upper lip public school?)

@surreygirl1987

MH issues occasionally brushed under the carpet but this may have been a feature of the times (maybe less apparent today)

University courses admissions were a big selling point for the school. Plenty directed down Oxbridge routes and support given to potential medics to make their grades.

@Southwestten

Surreygirl why do you teach in private schools if you are politically on the left considering the Labour Party is opposed to private education?

Very good question. Because I had some terrible experiences in the inner city state schools that I trained in and considered giving up teaching due to behaviour. I know all state schools aren't like that but I went into teaching because of a passion for my subject, not to be verbally and physically abused. Yesterday's Teacher Tapp survey showed 51% of responding teachers had been verbally abused by pupils in the past year. I can't imagine that happening at my school .. it's a lovely environment.plus far better salary, almost free accomodation for first 3 years, longer holidays, smaller classes, free classes, paid for my master's degree (mostly) genuinely lovely kids ... It's not a fair system at all but I have lots of bonuses if working in this sector, not least that academic standards are higher overall so I feel I can put my degrees to good use and challenge myself academically.

[quote mids2019]@surreygirl1987

MH issues occasionally brushed under the carpet but this may have been a feature of the times (maybe less apparent today)

University courses admissions were a big selling point for the school. Plenty directed down Oxbridge routes and support given to potential medics to make their grades.[/quote]
Yes, definitely Oxbridge and medic candidates are given a great deal of extra support. I applied to Cambridge when I was a student at my state school and got no help or guidance whatsoever... These pupils are definitely much better prepared and maybe you're right about being guided towards certain universities to some extent... But possibly more than for pupils with equivalent grades at any school? Unsure on that one.

MH issues .. pastorally a big focus on that but a king way to go still. I don't feel we're adequately trained. Again, might be the case in state sector too.

I like the sound of your Art teacher!

Surreygirl thank you for answering my question.

Do the students know your political views? If so, do they think you are hypocritical?

@Southwestten

Surreygirl thank you for answering my question.

Do the students know your political views? If so, do they think you are hypocritical?

Another interesting question! Some do, but only in context and with pupils I know well eg in a class debate or when teaching a text like An Inspector Calls or doing a mock election. However, I tend to prefer challenging them less personally - 'but what about' and 'have you considered?' Also sometimes if I'm frustrated with a pupil's narrow views, or 'everyone knows' mentality, especially if making comments about social deprivation, I might make it personal on purpose to give them a different perspective by describing my background or something like that. Do they think I'm a hypocrite... I don't know. Only one pupil has ever said something along the lines of 'so why do work in this school?' I wouldn't blame them if they did though!

Surreygirl that’s very interesting.
What do you think about Diane Abbott and Shami Chakrabarti sending their sons to private school?
Shami C even had her boy sit the Eton pretest. Whether he failed it or she decided against it I don’t know but he’s at Dulwich now.

Having seen the advantages offered by private school I wouldn't be surprised at any parent wanting to send their child to one (a decent one obviously. If we can manage it with big staff fee discount I'd like to send my own kids - they'd have opportunities I never had and I want the best for them. HOWEVER, I'm not a public figure in politics nor am I likely to be. Anyone who chooses to be involved in politics needs to make decisions like that very carefully as it sends a message. In their positions I wouldn't have done.

That said, it's easy to 'buy' top state education anyway if you have the money and the know-how... Buying an expensive house next to a top performing state school or paying for a tutor for grammar school entry...so even a choice to send their kids to state school might not be an average state school experience.

I'd say that most of DH's colleagues are generally left of centre (though not extremely so) - certainly the ones he's particularly friendly with. Many have taught in both sectors. Teaching is a funny old thing. People in other jobs who are left of centre wouldn't be criticised for working for a private company instead of a charity or within the public sector - nobody tells someone working in a checkout in Sainsburys that they're hypocritical because they are supporting a profit-making company (which is what a private school is). And even a private school is still fulfilling a central purpose of educating children - and although rich children might not have any more right to an education than other children, they don't have any less right either. I think sometimes people forget that ultimately teaching is a job - it might attract lots of vocationally driven people, but it's still just a job like any other, not a statement of one's moral or political beliefs.

Winches Alas, bullying goes on in very many schools. It was appalling at my private boarding school and prevalent in one of my DC's private schools. Parents everywhere need to be more proactive.

However I can see some parents being afraid about state schools where county lines and knives are common if not inside the school then at their gates.

@goldcone a significant number of private schools (not all) are most certainly not profit making companies, but are not-for-profit organisations which charge fees that only meet the cost of the service they provide, plus a premium which is used to create subsidied places for those who can't afford it from the pockets of those who can. The one attended by my DC doesn't have ridiculously extravagant facilities or particularly tiny class sizes, but just the level which all schools ought to be able to have if they were properly funded by a government that valued education.

I wish I had the power to make all schools adequately funded. I don't. I will continue to vote for parties with policies that will support better education for the majority and will join campaigns and protests in support of more funding for education, despite personally having the means to opt out of the criminally underfunded state sector. I don't think that's hypocritical, just doing what I can to get the best quality education I can for my own DC when it is beyond my power to get the same for all the rest of the DC in the country, so long as I nevertheless do what is in my power to bring about the latter.

I don't think that's hypocritical

Kiho it’s extremely hypocritical. You boast about your principles whilst not putting them into practice.

I was arguing that private school teachers aren't hypocritical, not the opposite! But you're right, it was a quick and not carefully written post - I don't mean that they're profit-making businesses, just that they're not state run, and are financially exclusive. I still stand by the basic point though.

Goldcone - not sure if your comment was addressed to me, but my comment about hypocrisy was addressed to KihoBebilu

Southwestten, would it be hypocritical to vote for a party that promises to (say) increase taxation in order to properly fund unemployment benefit in the hope that all families will be able to eat properly, while shopping in Waitrose yourself?

No, mine was addressed to kiho too (my other one was addressed to you though).

Goldcone - if I were to complain that Waitrose was an elitist shop full of ghastly mc shoppers and then shop there that would be hypocritical.

My objection to kiho disapproving of private education yet using it is this:
One reads endlessly on here and elsewhere that state schools are improved by pupils with involved parents who care about education. One of the objections to selective education is that it creams off the cleverer students who would benefit comprehensives.
So kiho is doing exactly what she apparently disapproves of.

Thing is, if everybody was forced to eat the same diet then it is arguable that the quality of that diet would improve. You could make that argument about anything. But in most cases people in the UK who are not on the extreme right or left believe that the state should provide a decent standard of living (food, housing etc) to everyone who needs it, but that other people are free to pay for a better standard of these things if they can afford to and choose to do so - even if that increases the life chances of their children in comparison with others. But for some reason that philosophy seems to go out of the window when it comes to education.

All of what you say is true, goldcone, but then why was there such a huge fuss when Diane Abbott sent her son to private school and criticism of Shami Chakrabarti when she did the same?

It's no more hypocritical than a Conservative using state education or the NHS.

It's important that people of all political persuasions use private schools, especially those that train Government and civil servants.
I've always thought this "hypocritical Labour for using private schools" was simply a device for preventing them accessing those positions.

But then, I don't believe that private education should be exclusively for the rich and elite.

I agree that teachers aren't better in the private sector - the environment of selective entry just means that they face a higher achieving cohort to start with. Teaching is obviously easier if you waste less time dealing with classroom discipline, with more compliant/motivated kids in front of you supported by more invested parents.

Let's face it, we're all champagne socialists in this respect - as evidenced by the annual scrabble/hand wringing to get into catchment of a good state school religious or otherwise and the 11+ entry for grammars & independents.

It's no more hypocritical than a Conservative using state education or the NHS

What if the Conservative can’t afford private education or private medicine? Is it still hypocritical?

Genuine question, Tanith, - why important that people of all political persuasions use private schools, especially those that train Government and civil servants?

Sorry, that should read ‘why is it important.....”