To think at a private school, it’s not the teachers that are better...

[Caitlin555]

....it’s just you are less likely to get the bad behaviour, and more likely to have smaller class sizes?

It drives me mad that there’s this perception that the teachers at private schools are so much better than at state. They are not. In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

It is obviously easier to get good results and control a class when you’ve got a smaller class of (probably) better behaved, more affluent kids whose parents want them to be there and to not have the social problems that some schools contend with.

I wish parents would just be honest about why they are sending their kids to x private school - it might be the small class sizes, it might be the facilities, it might be that it is super selective - but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

And no, I’m not a teacher.

@NailsNeedDoing true!!!

You are buying a way out of mixing with chav

Ah well, dont beat about the bush there.

I know someone who has only taught in private schools. He thinks the sun shines out his arse cos he always gets good results. Yeah smaller class sizes, and most of the kids have private tutors too will do that. He wouldn’t last a minute in a state school. The silver spoon would be hard to keep balanced in his mouth. He has no experience of class management of kids who don’t want to be there. He has experienced a very sheltered way of teaching.
I’d love to see how he’d cope in a bigger inner-city school.

I went to private school and some of the teachers were horrific, some were so bad/complete bastards I was completely put off pursuing the subject despite having a good general interest in them

@Chipship why would anyone be keen for their kids to witness mothers fighting in the playgrounds?

My eldest just moved to a private primary from state. The teacher he would have had in the state school used to teach at the private school. We’ve found that the private school just has a different culture - I don’t think the teachers are better at teaching but I think they are working in an environment where expectations are higher. Also, whoever manages the school needs to keep standards high or they’ll lose pupils and therefore money. Nothing is too much trouble, whereas in the state school if ever we asked for anything, even the most basic of things, we were made to feel like we were asking too much and that we should be grateful he had a school to go to.

In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

You don't at academies either i.e. the majority of state secondary schools in England.

@doodlejump1980

I know someone who has only taught in private schools. He thinks the sun shines out his arse cos he always gets good results. Yeah smaller class sizes, and most of the kids have private tutors too will do that. He wouldn’t last a minute in a state school. The silver spoon would be hard to keep balanced in his mouth. He has no experience of class management of kids who don’t want to be there. He has experienced a very sheltered way of teaching. I’d love to see how he’d cope in a bigger inner-city school.

I also know someone like this! Never even considered state teaching, all career has been in nice private schools.

To be fair the,teachers at my daughters private school,were better, they held uk wide educational positions as well as their teaching ones. My experience says the whole “you don’t need to be qualified” is irrelevant. because that’s not who is actually employed. They go for the best they can get. And pay them more too.

People might be using ‘the teaching is better’ as shorthand for ‘the smaller class sizes and culture of placing an importance on education, combined with the lack of a need for crowd control from disruptive students means that the teachers can spend more time focusing on teaching and therefore my child has a better learning experience’ it doesn’t necessarily mean that the teachers are better, just that the job requirements (and outcomes) are different in different settings.

4 children in/going through the private system.
Mostly great teachers.
Mostly hugely committed teachers.
The biggest thing that I have found is that poor behaviour is not tolerated by children or parents.. so leave if you aren't committed to the educational standard. Zero tolerance to bratty behaviour.
My children have met the most wonderful children. Theybhave formed great friendships.
The parents were and are, without exception, focused on providing/sacrificing/pushing their children to make the most of the huge opportunity that they are being afforded.

I don't think you always need to pay for a top tier education but in our case we wanted it for our sons and daughter's.

They are fully briefed in how lucky they are.

My husband started teaching as an unqualified teacher at a state school. I teach at a private school where QTS is essential. Most teachers in private started in state schools. What a strange generalisation OP.

@billy1966

4 children in/going through the private system. Mostly great teachers. Mostly hugely committed teachers. The biggest thing that I have found is that poor behaviour is not tolerated by children or parents.. so leave if you aren't committed to the educational standard. Zero tolerance to bratty behaviour. My children have met the most wonderful children. Theybhave formed great friendships. The parents were and are, without exception, focused on providing/sacrificing/pushing their children to make the most of the huge opportunity that they are being afforded.

I don't think you always need to pay for a top tier education but in our case we wanted it for our sons and daughter's.

They are fully briefed in how lucky they are.

That must be expensive!!

Depends what you mean by better.

Some teachers are amazing at simplifying concepts for the less academically able. Some have amazing classroom management. Some are great at stretching the brightest kids. I like to think that teachers end up gravitating towards schools that suit them.

An Ex of mine taught in both very selective private schools and super rough comps. Main difference was all maths and physics, chemistry teachers actually had degrees in the subject from Russell Group unis in the private school. Definitely not the case in a lot of state schools. In the very roughest schools classroom management, i.e. how to dodge the punch and restrain, was the key skill.

The recent events totally reinforced why I send my children to private school. Full schedule of online teaching including clubs vs...not a lot. My daughter is doing GCSEs this year and I'd be far more worried if she went to the local state school.
As for diversity, the racial mix is as diverse as at the local state school, though the children are of course from more affluent families, but diversity should be at all levels of society. And despite what many seem to assume, the many of kids at the private school are from regular families; builders, nurses and so on. The common denominator is they have prioritised education and made it happen, and that sometmes means just having one child in order to make it possible.
I can't speak to the quality of teaching from one to the other - I'm sure most teachers are doing their best and love their job. But results do speak volumes, and if the teachers were not able to teach, then the results would reflect that. Private schools have to prove themselves deserving of the fees after all.

Our DC would say the main difference is the food and having easier space for sport but certainly teaching has been excellent at both and their happiness as good at both .

I wouldn’t say the teachers are better but I would say the teaching is better and it’s largely down to smaller classes, and better funding and resources.

DD was in state school system until year 9. Moved to independent due to bullying rather than having a view that private education better. I had no knowledge at all of private sector beforehand.

I concur with OP that teachers aren't better in private sector. Probably the same in both; some fantastic, some mediocre. It's right though that there is a better calibre of student in the private sector. In DDs state school, low level disruptive behaviour and some pretty horrendous behaviour foiled many a teacher's attempts to deliver a lesson. In DD's new independent school, none of this happens at all and the whole lesson is devoted to learning.

If I had known this before, I wouldn't have sent DD to a state school. Some of the behaviour the teachers put up with in her old school was shocking and must have been so demoralising.

The teachers are mostly better at my dd’s private school. But that’s because they are not continually dealing with behaviour issues or hugely stressed. There’s a lot of drs. there too. I just think it’s a better environment for the teachers, so they flourish.

I have taught in both, and money does come into it, but not quite in the way that you think. Better resources can mean the school being able to hire better qualified and experienced teachers who command higher salaries,
I was educated in the state system, and never dreamed of teaching anywhere else; back in the day, schools were properly resourced and teachers encouraged to develop. But when the cuts began......without bragging, which would you prefer to have teaching your child? Twenty years' experience and an Honours degree in my specialist subject on top of an education degree, or a young, inexperienced teacher at half the salary? I priced myself out of the market, but the independent school where I ended up didn't pay higher salaries because they loved us so much - it was a selling point!
The classes were smaller, and I had a budget for the resources I needed. When I hear of teachers buying gluesticks and the like to keep lessons going, it makes me want to weep.........
I did find some of the techniques I acquired in the wilder reaches of London came in useful in my new setting, but the thing which really struck me was, how much more ground I covered in each lesson, simply because the boys came in, we settled, and were off into the lesson. Not that I couldn't settle restless classes if I had to, just that it chips away at teaching time.

They know how to play the exam system , picking & chosing different exam boards for better results .

I went to a private school and some of my teachers were shit. It's definitely more about the class sizes and facilities and, perhaps, the parents themselves. You don't seem to get the discipline problems in private schools the way you do in state schools.

I have experience of both as a parent, and as a past teacher in a state school. The main difference I see is workload and conditions.
So many teachers are stressed, jumping through bloody hoops, and doing the best they can with a shit system and under funding.
Whilst the teachers at dd school seem to have far less stress and more time, perhaps more autonomy?

Some of the comments on here remind me why we do not send our children to a private school.

I think you are right. I went to a very good state school but there was a girl in my History A level class who had some kind of issues at home and she sabotaged every lesson by kicking off at the teacher. It took up so much time and the rest of the class missed out so much.

I realise she must have been going through a hard time and there needs to be a place i education for kids like her. But I remember in the exam she didn’t even turn over the paper. She had ruined every lesson and cost me my first choice uni for no reason.

I guess that’s the sort of thing people pay for their kids to avoid. I don’t think it’s the right solution for society but it’s understandable.

State schools a lot of very good teachers to the private schools simply because who wouldn't want less kids in a class, higher salary, all the resource they need and less disruption. The older teachers I know have gotten burnt out in state schools. A lot of them moved to private schools. Private schools have specialist teaching from year 3. Of course most specialist teachers are going to be better than a run ragged form teacher. Because of the smaller class sizes
the teachers can do more emotional and social development not just crowd control. They can focus on bringing the best of the kids because their aren't hoards of them. This all amounts to "better teaching".