To think at a private school, it’s not the teachers that are better...

[Caitlin555]

....it’s just you are less likely to get the bad behaviour, and more likely to have smaller class sizes?

It drives me mad that there’s this perception that the teachers at private schools are so much better than at state. They are not. In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

It is obviously easier to get good results and control a class when you’ve got a smaller class of (probably) better behaved, more affluent kids whose parents want them to be there and to not have the social problems that some schools contend with.

I wish parents would just be honest about why they are sending their kids to x private school - it might be the small class sizes, it might be the facilities, it might be that it is super selective - but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

And no, I’m not a teacher.

Private schools don't often pay more. They just have more benefits elsewhere.

YANBU I have taught in both state and private schools and my kids have been to both too.

Also they fit more into the day (which is longer), this giving you longer holidays and enabling you to book slightly out of season. Extracurricular tends to be ‘on site’ meaning less time ferrying children to different clubs and lessons. The teachers are the same and they switch between state and independent schools, but independent schools may be able to offer superior benefits packages, which may well attract experienced and excellent teachers, particularly if they are weary of the strains of certain state school environments and the sometimes bizarre working demands that come as a consequence of ofsted regs. I speak as one who has taught in both sectors and enjoyed both.

My children went to private school and not once have I heard anyone say The teachers are better! I’ve never given it a thought. Both single sex schools. Their schools were amazing and so were the teachers. My children loved their education and always speak fondly of it. Sure the class sizes are better, facilities are fantastic, never had to go into their schools once regarding trouble. It’s the best thing we ever did, worth every penny. We did it because we could afford it!

The only thing that makes it easy for a 'teacher' to look better from a parents perspective is...its a private school (they are required to sell it), they can have leeway with curriculum and most importantly they are not swamped with unnecessary paper work or tests (less anxious and more time for the fewer pupils within the school).

Private school could theoretically employ a second hand car salesman as a teacher of business studies, statistics or any other subject they can vaguely sell themselves as an 'expert' on eg running several marathons = PE teacher. Obviously I'm not saying every private school teacher is not qualified...but there are a lot.

Cheery picked children
Smaller class sizes
Taught to pass exams
Longer school day so more time to get it right
Re-sits!

In my experience the most fundamental advantage of private schooling is the culture - the buying in to a peer group who expect to achieve and will work very hard to do so. It is cool to be hardworking. That is very different from the culture at my excellent state secondary school back in the day when the top set were social pariahs. That makes life so much easier for teachers. Imagine a world when all your students always do their homework and study for tests. Of course (some) independent schools also benefit from a hardline disciplinary policy - it is made abundantly clear that you behave or you are out. Interestingly enough many of the most successful state schools have similarly harsh disciplinary policies.
An independent primary school headmaster of my acquaintance used to say the secret wasn’t the kids or teachers but the supportive parents.....

Cherry picked not cheery! Entrance exams so the lower ability don't usually get in...

Vynalbob I'm not saying every private school teacher is not qualified...but there are a lot.

Funny, the main difference I have found is that the teachers pretty much ALL have a minimum of a masters degree in their subject. More than half have PhDs. This is a good indication of their passion. They mostly also have PGCEs. Some don't but they have such an incredible knowledge of the subject and so much passion for it that they end up teaching really well on the whole. To be fair, a PGCE only takes 1 year so suggesting that someone with one is without doubt a better teacher than one without is a bit ridiculous. If they can't teach, they don't last long.

Oh yes my dd’s new teacher told me that in yr6 at state schools they basically spend most of the year teaching for SATs tests where as they have the freedom to do more diverse subjects preparing them for secondary school.

I've taught in both private and state. I'd say that the differences are very small. Most state schools have good facilities and highly qualified teachers. Private schools have slightly smaller classes and better lunches, but the only real difference is the wealth of the families - which does not necessarily translate into academic prowess or excellent behaviour. I've taught in state schools with a large number of Asian pupils with better academic attitudes and achievement than private school kids.

@Mrsmadevans

They know how to play the exam system , picking & chosing different exam boards for better results .

I don't think that's necessarily true. My dd's school does have a mixture of GCSE/iGCSE depending on the course, but they actually choose the more rigorous version which sets them up better for A levels.

I’ve taught in state and private sector. I think I performed better in the private sector. I was expected to give consistently outstanding lessons - we needed to attract custom, regular ‘look rounds’, Open Days and I had to give a ‘wow’ factor. Having a smaller class to teach, and resources available made this easier.

Friend had two kids at local private school. Put daughter into state primary in Y4 for various reasons. Had been told she was on track and age appropriate attainment in the private school. Primary gave truer account - 3 years behind in reading and spelling, maths 2 years behind where she should be. What was the point of paying all those fees? Yes I am a qualified, very experienced teacher in state ed.

@claireandbabe there are crap private schools around, we all know that.
If bbc bitesize during lockdown is any indication of the state curriculum, my SENDs son is about 1 year ahead (just to counter your single example). his state school teacher at reception agr had after 6 weeks not realised he was in her class.....

I think private schools (not boarding) are going to do very well this year. We are not the only family who have pulled their children out of state schools over the non-existent education during the pandemic, no logical plans to get students caught up (my kids did 2 days at there old state school before they joined their new school), they spent the entire two days colouring in and playing games on the field.

The final nail in the coffin was when I asked what were the plans of a second lockdown or if families who had to shield couldn’t go to school. There were no plans.

It’s like they just spent the last six months having a game old time at home, hoping the unions would keep the schools closed.

It may have been true pre-covid there wasn’t much difference between state and private education and I believed that too. But this is a new world now and the private schools have really taken the bait and know how exactly to show their worth. The funny thing is some state schools are doing the same (online learning) so it’s really not a case of more resources.

Haven't read the thread, but after experiencing both state and private, the main benefit is who the parents are. The strong focus of the parent body on good behaviour and achievement is massively beneficial.

The teachers are definitely no better at private school, and in many cases worse. Private schools can recruit whoever they like. Don't even have to have any teaching experience or qualifications

@claireandbabe I have two DCs at private school, one at the top of the class and the other at the bottom. The one at the bottom is one term behind on the reading scheme. He’s the youngest in the year so would actually be ahead if he was a week younger. The exam results my other DC put him in the top 5% in the country. For many he has been top 1%. These are independently assessed exams that he has taken since year 1.

I think private schools (not boarding) are going to do very well this year.

On the contrary, I think many small private schools will be in fairly serious trouble in the coming few years. You have your anecdotal experience but our local state schools did a really good job during lockdown and parents at the private schools are taking notice. In particular the large, well-regarded private school in town basically ignored its upper sixth students, offering barely any pastoral or UCAS support at all, and I know of four families who are withdrawing their younger siblings as a direct result. Endowments aren’t performing as well as they might. Margins are tight.

As for the teachers, well all the class teachers are qualified at my DC’s school. We get an explanation of their qualifications. Some of the sports teachers are not qualified. For example, one of sports coaches isn’t a qualified teacher but he was captain of the England team in his particular sport so I am quite happy for him to coach my children! Likewise, they often use native language speakers for foreign languages (e.g. a French french teacher) and they don’t always have a U.K. recognised teaching qualification but they do help the kids get their accents right.

@EmilySpinach two of the independents around here have recently extended to 2 form entry. Both filled all classes this term, so about 250 extra kids..... Parents are desperate and the message from local state schools was “treat this as an extended holiday, the curriculum is suspended, don’t do any school work”. for 6 months....

[quote timeforanew]@EmilySpinach two of the independents around here have recently extended to 2 form entry. Both filled all classes this term, so about 250 extra kids..... Parents are desperate and the message from local state schools was “treat this as an extended holiday, the curriculum is suspended, don’t do any school work”. for 6 months....[/quote]
Great, but the two main independent schools in my town are having to merge to secure their futures 🤷🏼‍♀️.

@EmilySpinach which just shows it all depends where you are. most of our state schools are desperately crap, and only one of the good ones did do anything during lockdown. It is a disgrace, but it looks as if you want to get your child any education, you need private school, or staunch catholic school for us.

I didn’t choose private school fit the teachers but I did trust that bad ones would be terminated more swiftly than they would be in the state system. Also, weren’t the private school teachers “better” during lockdown? My kids’ private school teachers were working flat out but I got the impression the state school teachers were not doing much.

It’s a combination of many things and not all private schools are equal. The teachers in private schools have the luxury of time and resources to explain the concepts to the kids. The kids are fully focussed when they are in class, there is no tolerance for nonsense/bad behaviour. I won’t say I choose private education for my children because it offers well rounded development of a child and their interests are taken seriously. I was educated privately and have been fortunate enough to have the best teachers, who were brilliant and passionate.