To think at a private school, it’s not the teachers that are better...

[Caitlin555]

....it’s just you are less likely to get the bad behaviour, and more likely to have smaller class sizes?

It drives me mad that there’s this perception that the teachers at private schools are so much better than at state. They are not. In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

It is obviously easier to get good results and control a class when you’ve got a smaller class of (probably) better behaved, more affluent kids whose parents want them to be there and to not have the social problems that some schools contend with.

I wish parents would just be honest about why they are sending their kids to x private school - it might be the small class sizes, it might be the facilities, it might be that it is super selective - but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

And no, I’m not a teacher.

[quote TheoneandObi]@keeprocking choices, not sacrifices[/quote]
If you want to pick the nits, we chose to make the sacrifices. I appreciate that not everyone would be able to do that but we weren't in massively high-flying jobs, teachers.

I don't like the multinationals reference, so you're saying that private schools are 100% white? At my children's private school there is people of all races.

Multinationals is hilarious. Those are large companies with offices round the world aren’t they? I used to work for one

ArabellaScott

Her comments nailed it really . Life is unfair

So kudos to the teachers and staff that work in the PRU
Tears for my sons last teacher who had a mini breakdown and left because of some feral kids in his class
And the parents who battle work and kids with extreme SEN

I could say more and I won’t

I’m lucky enough that despite attending a rough as fuck state school I survived and got
Myself a career , that’s down to my parents

I send my Dc to a private school because it was the one they liked best, they passed the entrance exam, we can afford it and the facilities are awesome.

Their results are good, which is as important for their balance sheet as it is for the kids that attain the grades.

@timeforanew, schools shoul dbe places of safety and learning. I don't think people payin gto remove their kids and send them elsewhere is the solution. And as for this " going wothout" and " making sacrifices" its all relative isn't it?

Going without to some people means food or fuel.

I think there is too much generalisation about private schools. There are over 2,600 of them in the UK, so naturally, some are good and some are bad. Some cater to children of parents working overseas, some specialise in special needs or behavioural difficulties. The 'top' schools are very difficult to get into, and it is quite easy for them to kick out kids who misbehave. It is also easier for them to attract great teachers who are required to have an excellent grasp of their subject.

Many private schools provide a rubbish education, but can increase your chances good contacts later in life. Where I grew up, parents of less academic children chose this option, while their academic siblings were sent to the local comp.

However, state schools are not all equal either, and if you can afford to buy a house in the catchment area of a high-performing state school (house prices are typically bumped up by 25% in these areas), then there is a good chance that your DC will receive a better education that they might have had at an average private school.

There is no equality in education, but drawing a line between private and state should not be the starting point of the discussion.

@randomer I agree. I do however find it scandalous that I can afford (very good) private education for 2 children, but I cannot afford a house close enough to one of the excellent state schools near us. Good state education is A LOT more expensive than good private education, and that is incredibly wrong

[quote timeforanew]@randomer I agree. I do however find it scandalous that I can afford (very good) private education for 2 children, but I cannot afford a house close enough to one of the excellent state schools near us. Good state education is A LOT more expensive than good private education, and that is incredibly wrong[/quote]
It can be the case near me too

@Southwestten No, why would they? The assumptions they made about me were that I wished I’d been to boarding school, that my grandparents died very young (they didn’t), and that my mum worked in a factory. Oh and one of them thought if you snored, it was a sign of bad upbringing.

I don't think the teachers are better, they are just able to teach rather than do crowd control because there is an expectation of good behaviour and low threshold for removing disruptive pupils, plus smaller classes so teachers have more connection with and awareness of pupils

I’m not aware of anyone thinking private school teachers are better. Who do you know says this?
In fact you could argue that state school teachers are better because they teach 30 + children with varying degrees of behaviour and social problems. However, I wouldn’t want to say ‘state’ are better, as that’s unfair to the many private school teachers. But I think it’s safe to say a state school teacher has the harder job.

But children at private schools do get better exam results (usually). I always thought that was why most parents sent their children there.
I'm not saying it's because the teachers are better, I'm sure it's more about the things others have mentioned but I suppose if they get better results people will assume it's down to the teachers.

@Rosebel

But children at private schools do get better exam results (usually). I always thought that was why most parents sent their children there. I'm not saying it's because the teachers are better, I'm sure it's more about the things others have mentioned but I suppose if they get better results people will assume it's down to the teachers.

We are in a grammar school area. The private schools round here are where the posh but not so academic kids go. Their results are not great.

I’ve never heard people suggest that the teachers are better at private schools. The difference is that they can get on with teaching rather than having to manage behavioural issues.

The worst that ever happened in classrooms at the private school I went to was pupils being sarcastic to teachers. No assaults on teachers or other students, no swearing, no throwing things, no disruption. Just teaching children who all know that they’re expected to behave by the school and their parents.

Have just put our 3 into prep school. I was absolutely shocked that all my children’s old state school did during lockdown was send out a bunch of twinkl worksheets, a bit of mathletics and one phone call the entire time.

I asked the teachers if they wanted to see the worksheets and provide feedback, but they told me not to bother.

My kids have got colds and are self-isolating and were given a proper home learning pack each from their new school, and are set up on Microsoft Teams with the teachers. The school managed to maintain lessons throughout lockdown and are not having to repeat any work. The children’s old school said they’d be repeating teen 5 and 6 of last academic year now. Even though I did my best to educate them during lockdown I know the rest of their class were doing nothing. In the state school class of 30 and one teacher, the lessons would’ve been tailored to the ones who knew the least / forgotten the most. I could foresee my children falling behind. There have been some good efforts from academies locally at maintaining education during lockdown, but the LA schools just took it as green light for doing sod all for months on end.

We’ve sacrificed moving to a bigger home and the girls having to share. It’s not been a month yet and I’m in no way regretting my decision. The teachers are helpful, supportive and expect the children to work hard. They seem so enthusiastic and enjoy their jobs. I work in a school, I know what an exhausted teacher looks like who has slowly lost the will to live. This is not the teachers at the prep school. Also all teachers are listed on the school website and prospectus and have their qualifications Stated. None are unqualified. In addition to their class teachers, the YR 3 & 4 year old have specialist teachers for Spanish, music, PE, maths, computing And science. The school they go to also teaches KS4, so these teachers do KS2-KS4 lessons.

Yes it’s a bonus having smaller classes and knowing everyone is expecting the children to work hard (parents, schools and peers) really helps.

The prep school has a real diverse mix of staff and even split male/female and there are a lot of BAME families who send their children there. In there old school there were 3 mixed race children from two families in the whole school and all the teachers were white and female. I’m actually glad my kids get to learn about different cultures because they really seem to put the effort in, in this respect.

@Fucket i just realised tbe gender and ethnicity mix of teachers is similar in my area. I thought that might just be us, but maybe its more general?
State primaries (the two i know details off): 100% white, 90 % female teachers, 100% female TAs
our prep: 70% white, 50% female teachers 50% male, TAs: 10 male and 22 feme

@timeforanew, there is something very wrong if you cannot afford a home near decent schools. There is so much wrong, its overwhelming really.

@timeforanew yes it’s strange isn’t it. I wonder if there are more areas with more diversity in the local private schools than the local state schools.

Southwestten No, why would they? The assumptions they made about me were that I wished I’d been to boarding school, that my grandparents died very young (they didn’t), and that my mum worked in a factory. Oh and one of them thought if you snored, it was a sign of bad upbringing
ToastyCrumpet
The grandparents dying young is a weird comment but it’s hardly snobbish.
Being ‘odd’ is nothing to do with class - you get odd people from all backgrounds.
However you must have enjoyed noting down all these comments by ghastly snobbish public school students. .

Maybe people want diversity but the right kind of diversity.

I think there are good and bad in both state and private sector. I think it is easier to remove poorly performing teachers in private schools.

If there is a difference in teachers performance when comparing state vs private sector, I think it is probably not that there is a massive gulf in the individual teachers ability to teach- I think it is more that those teaching at private school are better able to teach to the best of their ability (generally speaking) for a whole multitude of reasons. Such as: smaller class sizes; greater resources; more time for preparation and planning; children who display (on average) better behaviour- and if they don’t private schools have the ability to ask a pupil to leave; pupils whose parents and interested in education (on the whole); and children who arrive at school well rested and fed, ready to learn. Obviously there are many state schools where the majority if those factors above don’t apply but there is a sizeable number for whom it really does.

I also think it is “horses for courses”- some teachers really want to work in deprived areas as they feel that this makes a big difference and so gain job satisfaction which keeps them enthusiastic, but would feel stifled in a more a traditional highly academic school. Other teachers would not get in at all well in a PRU environment, but are excellent at teaching very academic children to a higher level abd the challenge of consistently trying to stretch them- this keeps their interest and enthusiasm to continue. And some may like teaching SEN and will thrive in a specialist school. Are any of these teachers better than the other? Quite possibly not, just as likely is that they have different t strengths and are best suited to different types of school.

In my own experience, local state schools aren’t great. A few friends have pulled their DC out of state and into private due to the absolutely disgraceful attempts at “education” over lockdown. Twinkle sheets- don’t bother to send/email in for checking over so the teacher knows how things are going. Only a few sheets per day, no other contact. Calls not being answered, or answered and messages not being passed on/ teachers not calling back, and emails being ignored. Composite classes doing only the work for the younger age group. All the whole falling behind where they should be as no work being done. Several friends have found nothing much being done now as the teachers try to work out who has (or has not) done what. One’s son is so bored he has switched off. And feels that if there is another lockdown he won’t work as hard as there “is no point”. Friend spoken to school who say they are “too busy” to provide differentiated work for the whole class (he will be sitting exams soon). So not much excellent teaching been done by capable teachers able to differentiate across all abilities. DC’s school provides excellent education, wonderful teaching, great opportunities and were wonderful during lockdown.

I do have a friend who sends her children to a State school, which is highly rated a dnd her children are getting in really well. If I had the option to shed to a good state, I may well have chosen that. As I don’t, I chose the one best suited to my child.

But for

With 1 in an independent school and 2 not. I have to say I have never felt so good about our choice for DS and so guilty for DC2&3 as I do now. DS hasn't missed a beat with his education, everything he needed over Lockdown, back to moving forward all the time now, small class size, no behavioural issues. You cannot underestimate how much Learning time is lost dealing with children with behavioural problems until you see a class in action elwithoutvl them.

I guess the main thing is the work ethic, parents with high expectations, subject choice, more money available (usually). For decent/academic private schools you do need a teaching qualification. You are right - the teachers aren't any better. Some will have worked in the state sector.

You get what you pay for surely? The teachers at private schools are more likely to be paid more and therefore are presumably better? Other things play a factor too I guess, smaller classes, nicer kids