Furlough holiday

[MrsQGinglass]

I am furloughed still and work for a large international company. There are only a few off us still furloughed 2 in my office only.

I received an informing me that all holiday from last year that was carried over would have to be used in the October. I know the reason why it is cheaper for them to get part of the government to pay it.
My issue is that those that have not been furloughed are allowed to carry over their holiday for the next 2 years.
I really do not think this is fair as they are treating us differently.
I have contacted HR for clarification but they have not answered my emails.
Is this lawful.
AIBUto think that they are treating us unfairly.

@catgirl1976

I have never in my life seen someone cling so tightly to being so wrong. I'm almost impressed by it. It's incredible.

This. In spades

I've been on furlough since April. A colleague of mine (who does the same job on the same pay) has worked right the way through. I'm very uncomfortable about it and am grateful for the time off I've had. I have no idea what's going to happen to my holiday but I think to insist that I need annual leave after being off work for six months would make me a twat.

Did HR get back to you @MrsQGinglass? You've not updated the thread

OP you have continually harped on about being treated equal, equality for all staff etc etc however 10% of the workforce (including you) are currently furloughed!! Which you will have been informed off in writing and have had to sign in acceptance..... and if it’s anything like my OH had (who was furloughed throughout) there is a standard clause within this which stated he may have to use some or all of his annual leave entitlement during this time. Like it or not, at this moment in time, you are most probably employed under different terms than your colleagues who are in the office or WFH. Before creating a shit storm with your employers re annual leave have a good read through the letter of acceptance you signed on entering furlough. I may be wrong but have a feeling it will probably have been much the same letter for all, and if it is, good luck challenging this 6 months after signing!

@cyclemania

Did HR get back to you *@MrsQGinglass*? You've not updated the thread

Can't see the OP coming back on this thread again. She's been absolutely rinsed!!

“My issue is that those that have not been furloughed are allowed to carry over their holiday for the next 2 years.
I really do not think this is fair as they are treating us differently.”

So basically, you’re jealous? How sad!

Thank you, @NotBabiesForLong

OP has gone a bit quiet...has she given up trying to prove that she was being reasonable?!

So..I’ve just returned after 6months on furlough. I have full holiday entitlement and am allowed to carry over to next year (& the next I believe). Looks like I’ll have to as all holidays are booked by the staff that have worked..I don’t have an issue with that but I do have an issue when my boss says “you can just take whenever off” I ask for any days during the school holidays (October and December) and I can’t get them. I have 5 weeks still to take! I don’t want time off while my boys are at school & nursery coz I’ve just had to do that.

I can’t see why they can’t allow you to carry holidays over, as with everyone else. Personally I think it makes more sense! I will also be able to use holidays should I or any of my family need to take time off due to Covid so as far as I can tell the carry over for 2 years is of benefit to everyone..could that be a case you can put forward?

Had my pre booked holidays during my furlough (I didn’t get the option to use them!) then I’d have returned with less than 3 weeks left to take so that’s my own works fault I have so many.

I do think that being asked to use some is completely acceptable but I also think an allowance to carry forward should be for everyone in your workplace

@wally1983 the other issue from an employer's perspective is that if the furloughed staff are made redundant (quite likely in lots of places), any carried over leave has to be paid out, making them have to pay even more again for staff that haven't been working for some time. It's a shame for individuals but understandable if you're trying to keep a business afloat.

Or if they are kept on, they've still just had 6 paid months home - under crap circumstances sure but still paid to be home, and I don't buy the uncertainty and stress argument when plenty of others were worried about job loss and uncertainty AND working full time while homeschooling - so now the business needs them back and doesn't want to have to have to cover more time for them.in coming years.

yes, the people who were furloughed usually say stress and uncertainty. Not being furkoughed does not eman no stress and uncertainty. I was WFH full time, trying to hone school two DCS one who has SEN and the looming risk of my employer going bust was and is ever large. One of my colleagues (not furloughed) commenetd that she will be fucking pissed off if the business goes down when we are on our knews and exhausted and we will not even get a thnaks (and in my case not much redundancy thanks to being there only 2 years).

My employer is pretty shit anyway to be honest- The non-furloughed have literally not even gotten a thank you - in words or even in an e- ail for working all hours. And last Saturday I and a couple of others went in to helo with the installation of plastic screens so we can soon become client facing again- because we were asked to and it had to be done. No over time for this and wehn someone asked why one of the furlougthed could not have done it considering they have been home we weer told it was against furlough rules to have them come in even on a voluntary basis to do it. So mugs that we wre we did it.

I am embarrassed to say how much I earn- it's well under the supposed national average fo £26 k. But apparently I am swanning about stress free and glad to still be working when my colleage I mentioned up thread had exactly the same attitude (and was stupid enough to verbalise them to us still working) about carried over holidays as the OP. The OP said her line manager and colleagues 'agree' with her- I hopoe she never said what she thinks to the people not furloughed in her office. She might find that their feelings about ehr are not complimentary.

there are alot of typos there. My keys are sticky (glares at DS1 who had the computer yesterday)

I know it’s not ideal and I know furlough isn’t a particularly easy option but I think you need to show willing. That said they have to give you full pay not furlough pay through any time off. If you feel really aggrieved call ACAS for advice.

@EmmaWithTheGreatHair

And those staff don’t have children!

Which staff don’t have children and what is the relevance?

Wonkydonkey44
I’m really glad your not one of my work colleagues moaning about all the furlough you’ve had , all that chance to stay safe at home from the virus whilst your colleagues came to work and did your work as well . If you started moaning about not being able to move your holidays and keep some over for next year after being sat on your backside for 6 months I can assure you you wouldn’t be welcome back !
Wow
My colleagues are actually in agreement with me and so is my line manager.

Yet no one on mumsnet is, how strange?

Are you sure they're not just nodding approval and then saying how out of order you are once you're out of earshot?

YABU.

The people who have been working should be allowed to carry over holiday because tourism and travel has been partially suspended during the entire period they have been working and you have been at home on 80% pay. Where do you think they went for their holiday? Don't they deserve to have a decent holiday once it's actually possible?

You're being paid £2500 a month to not go to work and you're complaining about being treated differently from the people who've worked right through lockdown with all the extra stress of home schooling, finding childcare and having leave cancelled? Good grief.

I'm self employed, lost all my work during lockdown and survived on £920 a month Universal Credit. £400 excluding my rent. I enjoyed the time off. Yes, it was stressful not knowing if my business would survive, but I had a much easier time than my friends who had to carry on working, especially the ones on the frontline. What planet do you live on?

@Florencex meaning the staff in our company haven’t had to then go home and then start homeschooling. They told me what an easy time they had as it was so much quieter etc

Everywhere is different though isn’t it.

In our company I would absolutely have preferred going in to work, getting paid 100%, easy journey in, not working the full hours etc! In my furloughed case I wasn’t sitting around watching Netflix, was getting paid 80%, full school lessons sent through everyday which had to be organised and argued about, not to mention the stress of not knowing if I’d got a job to go back too.

In my case though the holiday situation is different than the OP’s.

OMG totally different planet, how entitled and selfish are you? Look at the responses to your post a bit weighted towards YABU then look at your thought process. If you worked for me you would have your coat on and be right out the door!!!

Yes it is unfortunately, none of if were furloughed but we were were told if we cancelled holidays over the summer (which most of us did) We would have to use that leave before Xmas, this pissed me off but, they also said they didn’t want people off in the 4th quarter (our year’s march to April) we always go away in early March and I wouldn’t have been using allocation from a cancelled break I would have had enough so I’m challenging this.

Wow. Can't believe how entitled and unreasonable the OP has been.
As a business owner it's been very stressful too, and quite simply, decisions had to be made regarding furlough ( we were only able to furlough maybe 20% of our staff) in order for the business to survive.
In other words agree to be furloughed/not furloughed. If you don't agree the whole business folds and no one has a job to come back to. Luckily our staff have been 100% behind us and supportive, and have taken holidays during that time when asked ( all staff, not just those who were furloughed). If everyone suddenly decided to take their holidays now in the last three months of the year we wouldn't be able to cope.
There's definitely a bigger picture here. We've unfortunately had to go down a redundancy route, and the staff member who was made redundant was also the only one complaining about holidays and working hours. Mud sticks and employees have long memories and will remember those who aren't loyal to the business.
Sad times, but if you want to keep your job, support management's decisions, as trust me, they weren't easy to make! And come back to work, if you still have a job, with a positive attitude.

I am sorry but why should someone that didn't ask to be furloughed, that has no job security be not allowed to carry over my holiday which I had cancelled by my company.

You sound about 5 years old. If that.

This thread takes goady entitlement to a new whole new level.

You need to think about why, if the company furloughed 10% of staff and most have returned to work, why only 2 of you cannot return to work at the office. Has your job been covered in your absence? Are you actually needed? Do they want you to return?

My colleagues are actually in agreement with me and so is my line manager
I'd be gobsmacked if that was true and not just something they said to you probably with their fingers crossed behind their backs.

Your employer probably wants you to use your holidays prior to making you redundant so they don't have to pay holiday pay. Contacting HR whingeing about this will have sealed your fate if it wasn't decided already. I would take holiday and spend the time earnestly looking for another job.

OP, I worked from home 12 hour days throughout lockdown in a job I started three weeks before lockdown began.

I was told at the end of probation that they couldn't afford to keep me, and am job hunting with no income in a very difficult market with vastly reduced salaries on offer as a consequence.

But that's fine, you whinge about your company being fair, whilst being paid 80% of your salary and sitting on your fat arse since March.

FFS, wake up and smell your early morning dump vinegar knicker, you're in a fortune position compared to some!

Stop whining and count you're blessings!

You’re not doing yourself any favours here @MrsQGinglass I get that being on furlough has caused lack of job security and I wouldn’t like it but a lot of people are miffed that you’ve basically had a paid holiday whilst people like me (public sector) have worked throughout. Just take your paid holiday and stop moaning. The fact is, you
ARE different to your non furloughed colleagues and what is happening is legal so you need to suck it up.

@MrsQGinglass

I am sorry but why should someone that didn't ask to be furloughed, that has no job security be not allowed to carry over my holiday which I had cancelled by my company. I wish my furlough had been all sweetness and light but believe me my mental health, financial security have been shot to pieces. *@SantaClaritaDiet* your suggestion is unlawful they can't use your grievances against you.

If you have been furloughed since 1st April, you’ll have received over £10,000 for doing sod all. And you're moaning about holidays??? My dh has worked throughout, putting his health at risk as he’s been exposed to other people working at close quarters with inadequate PPE. Almost half his colleagues were furloughed on 80% salary. Only half of those have returned to work as the company realised their jobs weren’t as necessary as they thought - so 10 have been made redundant. I was doing supply teaching, but obviously that stopped. No one paid me any furlough money. You are correct that any grievances you’ve made cant be used against you in redundancy, but if they want rid of you, they’ll find a way. I’m afraid you come across as extremely entitled and as such will garner very little sympathy.