Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be wary of hatred directed towards the British Empire

703 replies

Bumpitybumper · 18/09/2020 07:14

With the rise of movements such as BLM, there seems to be a growing hatred towards the British Empire and a keenness to point out all of the flaws and terrible things the empire and key individuals within it did. I too am horrified when I think about the role that the empire played in slavery and events such as the Irish Potato Famine. As these things become better publicised then there seems to be a growing school of thought that this is a white or at least British people problem that we must somehow atone for and feel guilty about. The British Empire has been cast as the ultimate villain and something we must be ashamed about.

My concern though is that lots of countries around the world have had empires and inevitably when these countries held lots of power, they acted in ways that we would now regard as morally reprehensible. The Mongol and Roman empires for example, were extremely cruel and many empires sort to brutally stamp out religious or cultural differences and gain control. Equally empires have brought about advancements in technology and improved the living standards of millions of people around the world.

Am I therefore being unreasonable to suggest that it is only fair to look at empires holistically and through the lens of the time they operated in? Of course the wrongdoings and horrendous acts mustn't be hidden, but equally they should be given context and positive acts shouldn't be erased either.

OP posts:
Totickleamockingbird · 20/09/2020 21:27

Patel has a long history of working for tobacco industry. People like her belong to no country or heritage. They only understand money.

Totickleamockingbird · 20/09/2020 21:28

Ah! Posted twice. Couldn’t see the first one so thought it didn’t work. Blush

CatsFantastic · 20/09/2020 23:13

It’s easy to sit and slag off women in the public eye because they don’t adhere to your particular ideal of how they should behave, but PP has done far more to help people than any of you keyboard warriors. She is voted in as a representative of the people from her constituent and they will be voting her in for a reason, you don’t know any of the work she has done for local community.
Stop sticking the boot in because her politics are different to yours, thats fascism at its very base.

She is a woman of Indian heritage who is the cabinet. That is a hell of an achievement and hopefully there are lots of little girls with brown skin who look at her and think “I can do that too” .

SionnachRua · 20/09/2020 23:21

Stop sticking the boot in because her politics are different to yours, thats fascism at its very base.

😂😂😂
Yeah, being critiqued on an internet forum = actual fascism. God love poor Priti Patel, how does she cope with these struggles?

OchonAgusOchonO · 20/09/2020 23:25

Stop sticking the boot in because her politics are different to yours, thats fascism at its very base.

Objecting to her suggestion of starving another nation into submission goes a little beyond a difference in politics GrinGrinGrin

OchonAgusOchonO · 20/09/2020 23:27

That is a hell of an achievement and hopefully there are lots of little girls with brown skin who look at her and think “I can do that too” .

I really hope little girls with any of colour skin are not aspiring to become the type of person who advocates starving a country into submission.

wightwine · 20/09/2020 23:50

priti patel suffers from caste privilege in much the same way that david cameron and boris johnson suffer from their caste/class privilege. they have no talent nor wish to make any contribution to the country, they are brought up to believe that are born to rule and that is enough. we don't need more people like them, brown skinned or white.

Totickleamockingbird · 21/09/2020 00:16

She is a woman of Indian heritage who is the cabinet. That is a hell of an achievement and hopefully there are lots of little girls with brown skin who look at her and think “I can do that too”
they can look up to far, far better women than Patel, regardless of their colour. I doubt I can ever respect someone who worked for the tobacco industry as a lobbyist. It doesn’t have anything to do with her politics (which is questionable at best anyway: remember that Israel scandal that got her kicked out? She is back only because it is probably one of the dodgiest governments UK has seen in the recent history and like attracts like). It is about integrity which tells others who you truly are.
Don’t play the race card.

PhilSwagielka · 21/09/2020 00:16

@Straven123

There is a lot of colonialism or events similar to colonialism but Britain gets singled out because it had the biggest empire. It was French colonialism which lead to the Vietnam War, Namibia has just rejected offers of Eu 10 million in reparation for genocide in the early 1900s of indigenous people by the Germans colonists, the French were fighting in Algeria in 1950s, I think it was.

Doesn't make anything better but feeling got at for things that happened in the past won't build empathy, more annoyance imv.
The Germans killed millions in the holocaust which was recent but somehow that isn't raised as much as it wasn't colonialism.

Do you live under a fucking rock?
PhilSwagielka · 21/09/2020 00:18

@derxa

It was particularly ridiculous to hear that coming from someone part Indian - Bengal Famine, anyone? This is why people hate PP. She refuses to behave like a victim.
No, it’s because her politics are terrible and if she was a white man I’d still hate her.

It’s amazing how hated Diane Abbott is on here and yet Priti sodding Patel has fans.

Tillygetsit · 21/09/2020 01:40

This post smacks of whataboutery to me.

BlackForestCake · 21/09/2020 02:31

Suggesting anyone would 'drag us back to the days of the empire with a song in their heart' is a bit of a stretch and rather hysterical sounding tbh.

The current prime minister of this country literally wrote an article saying “The problem is not that we were once in charge [in Africa], but that we are not in charge any more.”

Straven123 · 21/09/2020 06:37

The NHS was set up because of the dire health of recruits in the first and second world wars. Not because we were swimming in empire profits - it was pretty basic. We were skint at the time, post war, we have only in recent years paid off the post war loans from the USA.

bellinisurge · 21/09/2020 07:11

Patel is shite. There are far more talented women but, sadly, the only qualification for Johnson's cabinet is to be a third rate waste of space.
Name one person in the cabinet worthy of respect. At least Thatcher had people who were good enough to be there. And I hated Thatcher.
There's not one in the current cabinet. So she fits right in with them.

Sostenueto · 21/09/2020 07:25

We are no longer an Empire. We are a small country divided by class colour and until we solve those two issues among many we will never be a great country. We cannot keep living in our murky past and we cannot alter our murky history but we can move away from all that was bad in our past and make a concerted effort to make this multicultural country of ours an equal loving and caring country one of the most decent countries in the world. But that isn't going to happen under this Government I can assure you, one that has already lost our good name if the rule of law and made this country a laughing stock if the world.

Sostenueto · 21/09/2020 07:31

Priti Patel needs to get goin because shes needin lessons in how to finish her ings.Grin. Like the rest of the under talented Government who have licked Boris boots so much they have no pride left ( but they still have their precious jobs)

derxa · 21/09/2020 07:33

*No, it’s because her politics are terrible and if she was a white man I’d still hate her.It’s amazing how hated Diane Abbott is on here and yet Priti sodding Patel has fans.
I don't hate Diane Abbot. In fact I greatly admire her. I don't support either Priti Patel or Diane Abbott's politics. But the fact is Priti Patel has a right to her views and her constituents have voted her in as an MP.
Who are you to dictate what a woman with a brown skin should think?

CherryPavlova · 21/09/2020 07:43

@Straven123

The NHS was set up because of the dire health of recruits in the first and second world wars. Not because we were swimming in empire profits - it was pretty basic. We were skint at the time, post war, we have only in recent years paid off the post war loans from the USA.
No. That’s not the case. The ideology started with the Minority Report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Law in 1909. The report was headed by the socialist Beatrice Webb who argued that a new system was needed to replace the antiquated ideas of the Poor Law which was still in existence from the times of the workhouses in the Victorian era.

Benjamin Moore then wrote The Dawn of the Health Age in 1912. By 1929 local authorities were running medical care for all through Local Authorities Act.

In 1941, the Ministry of Health was in the process of agreeing a post-war health policy with the aim that services would be available to the entire general public. A year later the Beveridge Report recommended comprehensive health services which was supported across the House of Commons. The book by Cronin, the Citadel helped sway public opinion and highlighted issues with lack of healthcare.

Whilst the war put plans on hold, the White Paper was passed in 1944 before the end of the war.

Nothing to do with any recruits to anything.

Maireas · 21/09/2020 07:50

Priti Patel was bought up with the same caste/class privilege as Johnson and Cameron? Hmm
A woman of colour who went to a comprehensive school in Watford, then Keele University?? Not the same level of privilege as a white man who went to Eton and Oxbridge, I would suggest.....

OchonAgusOchonO · 21/09/2020 08:03

Who are you to dictate what a woman with a brown skin should think?

As a resident of the country she suggested starving into submission, I have no qualms criticising her opinions and thoughts. I have serious concerns about the moral compass of anyone who supports her having and articulating those thoughts.

derxa · 21/09/2020 08:10

As a resident of the country she suggested starving into submission, I have no qualms criticising her opinions and thoughts. I have serious concerns about the moral compass of anyone who supports her having and articulating those thoughts. Grin
You can criticise her all you like- that's your right. She can think what she likes- that's her right. Worrying about my moral compass is honestly one of the most pompous things I've heard on here and I've been here a while.

RuggerHug · 21/09/2020 08:27

People seem to have missed the irony of her suggesting starvation as a tactic. Ireland produces more food than we need, that's why we export so much. UK trying to starve us now wouldn't work. But the UK isn't self sufficient. They cut off food going either way, it's their own people who would starve. We also make most of the pharmaceuticals needed in the UK. PP was stupid enough to make that threat without having the slightest notion what the facts were, suggesting she's either

A) too thick for the job or
B) evil enough to be ok with British citizens starving so she could make a point.

OchonAgusOchonO · 21/09/2020 08:28

Worrying about my moral compass is honestly one of the most pompous things I've heard on here and I've been here a while.

Pompus is definitely preferable to supporting patel's right to advocate starving another country into submission.

Maireas · 21/09/2020 08:40

Most of the pharmaceuticals used in the UK are from the Netherlands, followed by Germany then Switzerland (House of Commons).

bellinisurge · 21/09/2020 09:33

She can think what she fucking well likes but she is so shit she shouldn't be anywhere near a position of responsibility. Like the entire cabinet. And I would say if I thought one of them was any good even if I disagreed with them.
We should never be proud of the Empire. Ever. It is an embarrassing stain on our history.