To be wary of hatred directed towards the British Empire

[Bumpitybumper]

With the rise of movements such as BLM, there seems to be a growing hatred towards the British Empire and a keenness to point out all of the flaws and terrible things the empire and key individuals within it did. I too am horrified when I think about the role that the empire played in slavery and events such as the Irish Potato Famine. As these things become better publicised then there seems to be a growing school of thought that this is a white or at least British people problem that we must somehow atone for and feel guilty about. The British Empire has been cast as the ultimate villain and something we must be ashamed about.

My concern though is that lots of countries around the world have had empires and inevitably when these countries held lots of power, they acted in ways that we would now regard as morally reprehensible. The Mongol and Roman empires for example, were extremely cruel and many empires sort to brutally stamp out religious or cultural differences and gain control. Equally empires have brought about advancements in technology and improved the living standards of millions of people around the world.

Am I therefore being unreasonable to suggest that it is only fair to look at empires holistically and through the lens of the time they operated in? Of course the wrongdoings and horrendous acts mustn't be hidden, but equally they should be given context and positive acts shouldn't be erased either.

Personally, I think Britain is getting off really rather lightly if all they have to suffer is a few bruised feelings and a slightly dented ego, given the profit enjoyed off the backs of the colonies.

@Straven123

If we acknowledge atrocities committed during the empire, and agree to read up on history - what else are we Brits to do? People want their pound of flesh but in what form? What now? I am not an MP, Cressida Dick, a history teacher etc just a lay person so what is wanted?

If you think that the history isn’t happening today, you are completely wrong. If you don’t read and acknowledge the history and understand how ‘is’ vs ‘them’ works, you will never understand modern day colonialism works. What happened in the past is not your responsibility. But what happens in future will be your responsibility.

‘us’ not ‘is’.

And I think that to a degree, the allegiance and loyalty of former colonies has been taken for granted by some of those in power, to an extent that is not warranted.

This, with bells on it. You only have to look at the shock and horror expressed by many in the UK when Ireland didn't roll over and do what they wanted wrt brexit. Patel's suggested solution? Starve us info submission.

Patel's suggested solution? Starve us info submission.

Again?

@mbosnz

Personally, I think Britain is getting off really rather lightly if all they have to suffer is a few bruised feelings and a slightly dented ego, given the profit enjoyed off the backs of the colonies.

The trouble is those in the big families who actually profited 300+ years ago - starting with the Royal Family and working down to the owners of the Stately Homes - will hardly admit to it on an Internet forum and immediately arrange for the transfer of funds. A lot of it is gone - watered down through an immensely increased population, 7x what it was then, transported around the world through movements, paid in war debts etc. How do you hope to trace it all when public museums haven’t? They’ll hide between those of us descended from the mine and factory servants and leave us to cope with any backlash.

@mbosnz - Again?

True. Although it didn't work any of the other times they attempted it either.

There is a slight irony that a large proportion of the Irish-American population can be traced back to the famine and the period afterwards, and that the Irish-American vote is hugely important. This has resulted in Pelosi, Biden and others telling the UK that if they persist in breaking the NI protocol and subsequently damaging the good Friday agreement, there will be no US-UK trade deal post brexit.

There was something about Priti Patel trying to bulldoze Ireland. inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-ireland-food-shortage-no-deal-brexit-leo-varadkar-home-secretary-warning-318794
There were even some who honestly seemed to think that the Republic of Ireland should leave when the UK did to solve us all the bother. I do agree about some of the ignorance in Britain. It isn’t my doing. It’s apparently matched by the level of ignorance abroad thinking that people like me actually have some control over the upper echelons in a nation of 70 million. NZ gov may be representative of its people. Britain is a mess. There’s a reason why many of us call ourselves mushrooms- kept in the dark, fed on horseshit.

It’s apparently matched by the level of ignorance abroad thinking that people like me actually have some control over the upper echelons in a nation of 70 million.

You have a vote. Nobody thinks you have any more control than that.

God Priti Patel is a twat. If ever there was a way to get the Irish to not do what you want, it was saying that...

It was particularly ridiculous to hear that coming from someone part Indian - Bengal Famine, anyone?

A simple recognition that the empire was horrific for the colonised and that it has had hugely negative effects that are still impacting us today (e.g. partition in Ireland and India).

It's not simple because it is not true. It is utter, near historically illiterate bollocks to sum up over two hundred years of complex history in this way.

I also think those British claiming they have received no benefit from the empire because their ancestors were miners, servants etc are either being disingenuous or else pretty blind as to cause and effect.

Britain, as a country, became very wealthy on the back of its empire. That wealth allowed your country to provide health and education to its citizens in a way that was not possible in most countries that were the victims of empire.

So did you benefit to the extent the wealthy did? Absolutely not? Did your ancestors get treated like shit? Absolutely? But you have benefited from the empire, just not to the same extent the wealthy did.

@TonTonMacoute - It's not simple because it is not true. It is utter, near historically illiterate bollocks to sum up over two hundred years of complex history in this way.

Really? Please explain how being colonised was anything other than shit? Also, please explain how the effects of partition, which would not have occurred without colonisation, are not still being felt today? And finally, the colonisation of Ireland went on for 800 years, not 200.

It was particularly ridiculous to hear that coming from someone part Indian - Bengal Famine, anyone? This is why people hate PP. She refuses to behave like a victim.

Yep the empire paid for the wonderful work houses where the British poor could literally swim in all gold stolen from around the world.

This is why people hate PP. She refuses to behave like a victim.

I think there might be a few other reasons.....

@stairway - Yep the empire paid for the wonderful work houses where the British poor could literally swim in all gold stolen from around the world.

The poor in Britain had a shit time up until recently. However, without the fruits of empire leading to a wealthy country, do you really think the NHS would have been possible?

My late MIL was Highland and used to go on about the Highland Clearances and the Duke of Sutherland. She refused to set foot in England because of the wrongs of the past. That is similar to a lot of the attitudes on here.

@derxa

It was particularly ridiculous to hear that coming from someone part Indian - Bengal Famine, anyone? This is why people hate PP. She refuses to behave like a victim.

Really? People don't hate her because:

• says Thatcher is her hero
• held secret meetings with Israeli ministers
• believes prisoners shouldn't vote
• was a disrespectful dick to another nation and tried to bully them into submission

Yah, it's 100% because she refuses to be a victim - aka acknowledging what was done to the Indian people, part of her own heritage

@stairway

Yep the empire paid for the wonderful work houses where the British poor could literally swim in all gold stolen from around the world.

Well put.

The NHS and our schools? You’ll struggle to simultaneously claim great benefit via education in our schools while pointing out common ignorance I think? The NHS is not unique and is underfunded. What it runs on is the hard work and dedication of its staff. Our public services are all woefully underfunded. I benefitted from museums and libraries; library funding mostly came from Carnegie and scraps from local subscriptions, and are now running on low paid staff and volunteers; museums have long been mostly volunteer-run. Take the Royal Family’s entire combined bank balances; it will not affect me.

@OchonAgusOchonO

If you want to play that game, then without the Empire and the importing of English as a mother tongue, would Ireland be in a position now to serve as a European headquarters for tax dodging multinationals, or would it have just plodded on heavily reliant on farming and tourism like Greece or Italy?

Whether it's that question or your question about the NHS the answer is: we wont ever know.

The NHS is not unique and is underfunded.

It is now but it was an amazing system when first introduced.

Importing of english as the mother tongue.

Of all the ignorant, stupid, patronising, thick-as-shit stuff I've read on this site, this is one of the worst.

Importing of English? 😂😂😂😂😂
Pog mo thoin.

@TonTonMacoute

A simple recognition that the empire was horrific for the colonised and that it has had hugely negative effects that are still impacting us today (e.g. partition in Ireland and India).

It's not simple because it is not true. It is utter, near historically illiterate bollocks to sum up over two hundred years of complex history in this way.

People like Patel don’t belong to any side except the one that pays the money. She has a long history of working for the tobacco industry. Do we need to know anymore than that?