Am I deluded to think the blue wall might crumble if there were a GE ?

[Katharinablum]

Appreciate there's not going to be a GE for at least 3 years. Also appreciate that the british electorate seems to have a short memory regarding tory governments...
I'm on twitter and a regular comment from certain elements is that longstanding Labour leave constituencies turned tory in the last GE. Usually associated with crowing about how labour is finished. Back in dec 2019 I would have struggled to disagree, but with a new leader at the helm things are looking up, that and the absolute ineptitude of the government's management of the pandemic, plus their sheer dishonesty over brexit, I'm daring to wonder whether those resolutely blue constituencies in the home counties and shires might turn a little pinker ? What's the tipping point to make life long tories desert them ?
People up here in the north are more politically fickle, there's alot of w/c dislike and distrust of labour, far more than they deserve, whereas the tories have escaped it relatively speaking, despite years of ideological austerity that hurt the north far more than the EU ever did..Just wondered if people thought there would be a realignment in the way huge areas of the country voted, what with a chaotic brexit pretty inevitable as well as the fall out from covid.. .

@chomalungma there were a number of threads on here by recently redundant mners when the covid shit started hitting the fan.

Care to guess the tone/reason for them without my saying? And without searching?

Self employed people do NO get sick pay over and above £95 a week sick pay
which does not cover much

I do still wonder who this mythical "working class" are ?

• supermarket workers ?
• delivery drivers ?
• construction workers ?

remember that most families claiming benefits are in work, not out of work

the Tories perfected the "benefit scroungers" line years ago
and people do not realise it means them

the Tories perfected the "benefit scroungers" line years ago
and people do not realise it means them

Yep that summarises what I was trying to say at much greater length!

The main woman on question time that sticks in my mind iirc was basically tying herself in knots trying to avoid saying "but I didn't think you meant me! I thought you meant those lazy scroungers that are choosing not to work for no good reason!" (Which are so extremely rare as to be inconsequential!)

I think the tories from as far back as Cameron have done an amazing job of fooling certain sectors of the electorate into thinking the tories are "their" party

I agree but it started with Thatcher and right to buy and selling off the nationalised industries.

I agree but it started with Thatcher and right to buy and selling off the nationalised industries. yes!

And that being presented as "good for us"

I was speaking to a child very young gas man recently and he didn't even know that gas and electricity had been nationalised at one point!

I'm old enough (just!) to remember paying such bills prior to privatisation and the prices absolutely ROCKETED pretty much as soon as privatisation happened!

Not to mention the utter BOLLOCKS of the "ads" that ordinary people would be able to buy shares AND have a say in how the companies were run! But then even at the time I thought it was bollocks and was stunned at the gullibility of older people buying into it all!

It plunged millions into poverty almost overnight.

Cut to around 30 years later and now the country doesn't even benefit from the profits of the companies that own our utilities as most of them have foreign head offices and dodge as much tax as possible!

[quote Graphista]@chomalungma there were a number of threads on here by recently redundant mners when the covid shit started hitting the fan.

Care to guess the tone/reason for them without my saying? And without searching? [/quote]
When they learn about Universal Credit?

And how the benefits system works when you have to be seen for applying for lots of jobs to get it?

Someone said upthread about it being aspirational to vote Conservative.

I wonder what words Conservative voters associate with Labour / Lib Dem voters (and vice versa)

Which group do they want to be seen as part of?

(I know that I would never want to be seen as a Conservative voter. It's not a group I want to be part of)

I guess that goes for some Conservative voters

When they learn about Universal Credit? sort of

And how the benefits system works when you have to be seen for applying for lots of jobs to get it? nope not this bit something else they were spitting dummies over...

The Libdems and to a lesser extent Labour
have fallen down the wormhole of identity politics
they do not represent other than woke metrosexuals
which is a problem in the real world

the right wing are shits
but they understand aspiration

Agreed that the right understand aspiration and also human personality at its worse. Didn’t they think up the slogan ‘the strivers and the shirkers’ ? They are incredibly adept at dividing the w/c with the hardworking families schtick, the others who aren’t doing so well are there through laziness, lack of discipline or drive. Humans like to be flattered and be told that their achievements are purely down to their own talent and hard work rather than just downright good luck. Hence why dividing people into the deserving and undeserving poor claptrap works every time.

Gove presented a great speech about aspiration at an event several years ago. It was faultless. He cited Jade Goody and her desire to work anyway she could to get money for her sons and how they were sent to private school. As a speech, it hit all the right buttons and it really was flawless - the sentiments were indisputable to anyone - who doesn’t an environment where their child will flourish?

This is the information people are hearing. A (Tory) canvasser came to my door during the last GE and mentioned that there was no where in the borough (London) where you could do A ‘level further maths. I know of one place it was done so corrected her and she told me it no longer is available. This is important information for people as they judge based on these things and what it says (to them) about A’level.

The Labour canvasser knocked on the door and said who are you voting for impatiently. You are not meant to ask that directly.

Donna The Labour canvasser knocked on the door and said who are you voting for impatiently. You are not meant to ask that directly.

I like to engage them in a little polite conversation when political canvassers take the trouble to knock at my door. So I prepare a couple of easy questions for them that I think they might be interested in answering. The question was "how do you think the Scottish Government's unicameral set up can be improved so as to better meet the separation of powers requirement when passing well balanced and rigorously checked legislation?" Alternatively, I asked them whether they thought that over-reliance on secondary legislation and licensing was constitutional, given that parliament never debated many of these measures that affect most peoples' daily lives.

The Conservative candidate made a good attempt to answer although lacking knowledge but none of the others did. The Lib Dem candidate was particularly disappointing as she was very arrogant and clearly thought herself above it. She was actually rude to me.
The SNP candidate was friendly but useless and clueless and just admitted that he didn't know. The Labour candidate stared at me like a rabbit in the headlights, muttered something incoherent and ran away back to his car! To be fair, it was raining.

I honestly don't think those questions are beyond the capacity of someone who wants to become an MSP or MP (I'm in Scotland) but we keep getting MSPs up here who are school leavers or recent graduates who have never had proper jobs and who can't even discuss their own degree subject coherently!

The only thing worth voting for is an entirely new way of making rational national decisions.

@IncandescentSilver

Ha!

I agree with you that they should be able to answer or say, look I specialise in this area and I don't know enough about xyz to give you a detailed answer but I can find out.

To fail to understand the role mechanics play in law, policy and governance and to rely on personality politics really says volumes to me. The example I gave of the Tory canvasser who knew about the maths really said that she understood at a fairly basic level what was happening in the area.

This is the information people are hearing. A (Tory) canvasser came to my door during the last GE and mentioned that there was no where in the borough (London) where you could do A ‘level further maths. I know of one place it was done so corrected her and she told me it no longer is available. This is important information for people as they judge based on these things and what it says (to them) about A’level.

This really badly written- apologies, but I think you get my gist.

@IncandescentSilver

Sorry - should say -

...look I DON'T specialise in this area and I don't know enough about xyz to give you a detailed answer but I can find out.

I might just go back to bed.

He cited Jade Goody and her desire to work anyway she could to get money for her sons and how they were sent to private school. As a speech, it hit all the right buttons and it really was flawless - the sentiments were indisputable to anyone - who doesn’t an environment where their child will flourish

If only the Tory party hadn't mucked up school funding.

@chomalungma

Naturally, that wasn’t mentioned

@chomalungma still interested in those threads re those recently being "introduced" to the delights of the benefits system?

He cited Jade Goody and her desire to work anyway she could to get money for her sons and how they were sent to private school.

And that sums up nicely exactly what is wrong with the Tory party - that only private education is worthwhile.

@MarjorytheTrashHeap

He cited Jade Goody and her desire to work anyway she could to get money for her sons and how they were sent to private school.

And that sums up nicely exactly what is wrong with the Tory party - that only private education is worthwhile.

In many cases it’s nothing to do with the quality of the education on offer. It’s just another way of displaying wealth.

They MAY get in again but it won't be Boris at the helm.
Hell will freeze over before I vote for them tho.

[quote Graphista]@chomalungma still interested in those threads re those recently being "introduced" to the delights of the benefits system? [/quote]
So what did people find out then?

Not so much what they found out...more they NOW think certain rules should change because NOW it affects them!

Most specifically the amount you're allowed to have in savings before benefits are affected or not paid at all because "but that's my savings to buy a house..." well it was! Now you're redundant and you're reasonably expected to use accessible savings to live on!

Apparently such rules being applied to "other" claimants was fair because obviously all non covid related claimants are feckless, workshy arses!

Most specifically the amount you're allowed to have in savings before benefits are affected or not paid at all because "but that's my savings to buy a house

Oh yes.

You've got some savings, Then no benefits for you then