Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

@Hamm87

I am not offended by them talking about it I am however pissed off they think there lives matter above everyone else everyone in this world is equal and should be treated as so.

Except they don't think that. That's not what Black Lives Matter is about. It's not saying 'black people are better than everyone else', it's saying 'black lives matter as much as white ones, we are not expendable'.

I’m not convinced racism and sexism are that similar.

Although there are some elements of sexism is about women wanting greater opportunities, much of it is about woman wanting to be left alone. They don’t want to be stalked, harassed by men or expected to perform emotional labour for them. So a great deal of sexism is resolved by leaving women you don’t know alone, which many men simply refuse to do.

That isn’t at all the same scenario as racism in the U.K. Huge numbers of racists just white flight themselves into places where they rarely interact with other ethnic groups. So whatever is wanted from them in terms of anti-racism, it isn’t about leaving groups alone.

@turnitonagain, possibly, but I probably wouldn't get fun poked at me because of my culture.

I'm sure that white privilege exists but some are more privileged than others.
You cannot compare my 'white' privilege with that of someone who is younger, more attractive, and richer than me.

There is a lot of prejudice towards the poor, that might be worse if they were not white, but it's still prejudice.

People are defensive because it is hard to have a measured debate on all sides. It always seems to become too extreme - example
I’m not racist at all
All white people are racist on some level
There isn’t racism
Black people don’t have such a hard time compared to...
All protestors are rioters
All white people are racist
Lots of white people get discriminated so it’s not as bad being black

All of the above are totally unhelpful and untrue - I honestly don’t know why we can’t have a more nuanced mature debate.

Doesn’t offend me, it should be talked about. But no I don’t agree with the BLM riots and vandalising statues. There are better ways. Imo

I feel that I have done my DH a great disservice and our relationship did cause a rift in his family and I now accept that his sisters had a valid argument although I didn’t see it at the time

Oh my god, I think this is desperately sad on so many levels. First, it illustrates the point of those who are arguing that we have now come so far from Martin Luther Kings dream of people being judged on the quality of their character not the colour of your skin. You clearly feel that the quality of your relationship and your characters is secondary to your skin colours.

Secondly the fact that you, as a woman, feel that YOU are to blame for you and your husband getting together, as if he were just some passive helpless person with no agency.

As a white person, I find people who are offended about your post annoying to say the least.

I will be honest, I dont think I have grasped how racism is affecting black people, men or women. I dint this is the case because I didn’t understand issues related to immigration until I became an immigrant myself. Basically until I had first hand experience.

But I do know that I am privileged. I do know that been white is influencing my life in more ways than one, just like being black is influencing black people’s life. And that, even if I am not racist, even if I am doing my best to learn, even if I trying hard to challenge my own preconceived ideas, I still have unconscious biases that are affecting how I see black people.

I thin’ that people balked at the idea that ‘all white’ people are rather than always looking at the individual level because it makes them feel uncomfortable. Because they know deep down that actually they ARE part of the problem. And they feel guilty about it. They dint like someone telling them they are nit good enough or racist (insult!! How can they let someone insulting them ?).
And all the whole they miss the feel biases they have, like every White person who has been raised in a predominantly white country. Because they are normal. So normal that it would never cross their mind to challenge that or see it as an issue.

No, @Stripesgalore feminism isn't just about getting men to leave women alone.
Read Difficult Women by Helen Lewis if you are interested in feminism.

Generally I think most people struggle to care deeply about things which don't directly affect them

Yup this. I think this applies to lots of issues not just racism.

@Hamm87

I am not offended by them talking about it I am however pissed off they think there lives matter above everyone else everyone in this world is equal and should be treated as so.

Talk about getting the wrong message. This is why black people feel completely sidelined. I remember when BLM first started; it was maybe a year ago; white FB friends of mine went batshit crazy, yelling no, ALL LIVES MATTER!

As if we were saying that ONLY black lives matter! As if we were putting ourselves first!
It's a people who are so used to being in second place, used to be classified as inferior, finally standing up and saying, we are here, and we count to.
We should not have to add a TOO at the end of BLM. But it seems some white people are so blind and deaf they need it.

Sleepyhead, thanks for replying. You make a lot of sense. If it makes you better at communicating sensitively with others I can see why you would want to listen.

‘No, @Stripesgalore feminism isn't just about getting men to leave women alone.
Read Difficult Women by Helen Lewis if you are interested in feminism.‘

I didn’t say it was.

@Anordinarymum find me a white person who is 100% not racist in any way at all. Find me a man who is 100% not sexist in any way at all. The whole point is that a lot of racism is unconscious. When you are part of the privileged group, you don't see it. That's one of the privileges. Like men who claim that we don't need feminism any more, that women are equal if not privileged, that because there are now laws guaranteeing women's rights to vote, work, own property, divorce, withhold consent to marital sex, etc, the job is done. I know many men who would be wounded to be told they are in some ways sexist and that they benefit every day from sexism, but it would still be true to say it.

Too many white people think that racism is the overt stuff, the BNP and EDL and KKK, racist graffiti and violence and calls for forced repatriation. Too few white people recognise that racism is far more than that. Years ago I was talking to my DH about getting the night bus home it became clear to me that he had no idea about the mental checklist of 'the safest way to do this as a woman'. My DH is not an overtly sexist man, but he is a man in a sexist society, he benefits from sexism, he does not recognise certain issues because he has never had to confront them because as a man that is his privilege. It works for racism too.

@Hamm87, when you see an advert about breast cancer ans fighting the virus, are you incensed by it because ‘all cancer matter’? So adverts should be about all cancers nit just breast cancer.

When you see a movement to protect children from domestic violence, are you angry because ‘everyone matters’ ? Or are you thinking that children need special protection?

So why do you think that Black Lives Matter is about putting black people above everyone else? Is it not possible for some people to fight for ‘Black lives’ without ignoring the lea of other people. Just like fighting to protect children doesn’t mean it’s not allowed to also fight for women or men caught in DV?

@formerbabe

Generally I think most people struggle to care deeply about things which don't directly affect them

^This.

I am not offended by them talking about it I am however pissed off they think there lives matter above everyone else everyone in this world is equal and should be treated as so

You have completely and utterly missed the point though.

Imagine a campaign about reducing female deaths due to domestic violence and the systematic oppression and sexual violence against women throughout the world.

Now imagine men piping up on social media saying “what about violence against men?- I can’t support a campaign that empowers women and ignores men!”. Do you get it now? No one is saying men and or white people dont matter but the fact is - women are being murdered in their millions by men across the world and THAT is why it’s important- same with BLM.

i have no issue with people of any colour talking about racism. However that's not really what BLM is about though is it? It's what people think it's about and why so many people support it. I am happy to support an end to racism but not BLM as such.

@Questionspandemic

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

Question for you how on earth can this be voted on in a poll? what is AIBU about?

[quote IShaggedAMarriedMan]@turnitonagain, possibly, but I probably wouldn't get fun poked at me because of my culture.

I'm sure that white privilege exists but some are more privileged than others.
You cannot compare my 'white' privilege with that of someone who is younger, more attractive, and richer than me.

There is a lot of prejudice towards the poor, that might be worse if they were not white, but it's still prejudice.[/quote]
I’m not comparing you to some younger or more attractive.

As you describe yourself - an older unattractive woman from a culture that’s made fun of who is black. Is she viewed more favourably in Britain than you are?

Even attractive black women face issues with their hair and body shape not being seen as “normal” or “professional.” There have been posts on MN about black children forced to cut off their natural Afro hair because their school decided only white styles comply with uniform rules.

White privilege means all things being equal, whiteness provides some privileges in society compared to blackness.

Question for you how on earth can this be voted on in a poll? what is AIBU about?

Poll is the default - Only realised after
AIBU - for traffic

The main issue I have with talking about racism is how defensive people get. As soon as that wall goes up there can be no open discussion.

I took the race-based implicit association test a few years back (I know research shows it is flawed) assuming I had no automatic preference. The results however showed that I have a slight preference to black people. I think all people have certain beliefs about race, gender, age etc we just don't want to openly admit it.

I've posted before about this.

An example of white priviledge is having the vast majority of medical books written about white patients and very few or none about something as simple as signs on black or darker skin. Even having oxymeters calibrated for white skin. Thus resulting in worse health outcomes for populations or groups with darker skin.