Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

I follow an extremely articulate black woman on Twitter who often makes me feel bad when she talks about race.

Quite often I think "that makes me feel bad/twitchy/annoyed, I should stop following her" but I don't.

And over time it's really helped me because she's right, it's not about how I feel - I have white privilege and that's just a fact and I've benefited from it for all of my life, even when I didn't notice, even when I was having a bad time.

It still makes me feel bad, because someone speaking hard truths is hard to listen to, but it's really the absolute smallest thing I can do to listen.

You see this is what the problem is, to take aim at being 'lumped' with racists and turn focus away from act acknowledging racism when all white people benefit from privilege.
See the unprecedented number of Ofcom complaints about Banjo's performance by people who claim to not be racist but are just offended by it.

Why is it a problem to not want to be lumped into a racist group?
I have absolutely no issue with listening to black people talk about racism especially in ways they have been directly discriminated by it, we should all be doing this, I do admit when the generalisations start coming out though I feel less inclined to listed. No group should be generalised, that just doesn't sit right with me.

@SoVeryLost how would you know what I do or don't do to combat racism? I didn't blame my ancestors for anything I simply said I have no control over what they did. And I certainly don't deny racism exists I object to being lumped together as 'white people' as if we aren't all individuals with varying degrees of though and feeling.

@movingonup20

In my experience its because the people I know who have been vocal about blm are very privileged, one is Cambridge educated, both privately educated, their kids privately educated, huge houses, lots of holidays etc - they have dark skin, that's the only thing they have in common. Meanwhile other people I know are really struggling but they have white skin so they are the "privileged ones"? There is serious issues with racism but it's not homogeneous, it doesn't affect all dark skinned people equally. Hearing someone on tv I've met in real life talking about compensation was my limit - she's had far more opportunities than I could dream of, some because of her skin colour (scholarships), I don't begrudge her success but I do get riled by her suggestion that we should be giving her an annual stipend to make up for her lack of being white???

Maybe you might want to listen to them, although they may have had some privileges in life, they will most definitely had to ‘fight’ harder to get to where they are. It suits you to believe they’ve had more opportunities then you.

I'm white, I'm not offended. Why do you think I am?

People know that racism is wrong.

People want to think well of themselves.

People cannot bear the discomfort of realising that some of the things they think and say and do are racist.

People reject conversations about racism that make them uncomfortable.

Just about nothing offends me. In fact I think the sooner we move to a UK where if you are offended we say weak you, toughen up, go off and cry in a corner, get some therapy rather than poor poor you.... the better.

@Xenia, that is the culture I grew up. Keep your head held high, don't let them get to you, stiff upper lip, etc. I think the younger generation feels they can score points by calling people out on any petty transgression. We are no longer Spartans!

Because we are all a little bit racist, including black and other POC?

Because people feel lumped together and personally attacked.

Because actually we have a massive class issue which is never a protected characteristic and we would rather be turned against each other based on colour.

Many many reasons.

I also think the the majority don't really understand Racist society

Imo, any woman only has to translate the experiences of sexism, and as we get older, ageism, and for some of us, disability discrimination, to imagine what racism is like? It doesn’t take much imagination surely?

Imo, the whole business of the neglect of care homes with regard to the corona virus crisis, is an example this year of ageism and disability discrimination by this government, who saw an opportunity to save on the costs of health, pensions and social care?

I am not offended by them talking about it I am however pissed off they think there lives matter above everyone else everyone in this world is equal and should be treated as so.

I'm not offended.

‘I follow an extremely articulate black woman on Twitter who often makes me feel bad when she talks about race.

Quite often I think "that makes me feel bad/twitchy/annoyed, I should stop following her" but I don't.

And over time it's really helped me because she's right, it's not about how I feel - I have white privilege and that's just a fact and I've benefited from it for all of my life, even when I didn't notice, even when I was having a bad time.

It still makes me feel bad, because someone speaking hard truths is hard to listen to, but it's really the absolute smallest thing I can do to listen.‘

I find this incomprehensible. How are you helping anyone or doing anything by listening to some woman who makes you feel bad?

@Hamm87

I am not offended by them talking about it I am however pissed off they think there lives matter above everyone else everyone in this world is equal and should be treated as so.

Oh how dare they! Don't their know their place?

(sarcasm)

@unmarkedbythat

People know that racism is wrong.

People want to think well of themselves.

People cannot bear the discomfort of realising that some of the things they think and say and do are racist.

People reject conversations about racism that make them uncomfortable.

People who are white and not racist object to questions about racism which point to all white people being racist.

All white people are not racist - fact. All black people are not racist - fact.

Referring to white people as a homogenous group is just as offensive as talking about black people as a homogenous group.

I don't imagine many have an issue with people talking about their own experiences, but what is offensive, is appropriating other people's experiences, which I have seen here. Eg 'Only black people experience racism'

I am however pissed off they think there lives matter above everyone else everyone in this world is equal and should be treated as so

They?

Anyway, 'they' aren't saying their lives matter more. The campaign is saying that black people's lives have mattered less, and that this needs to be put right so that their lives matter well.

I think it's a guilt/embarrassment thing as PPs have said. Not offended though. Feeling helpless and a bit powerless as to how to right the wrongs of the past maybe.

I don't feel offended. I feel ill equipped to join in discussions though.

I don’t know. I’m 65, I did all the protesting and the fighting in the 1970’s and we really believed then that we were making a difference.

I’ve been with DH (Black, Jamaican) for 30 years and we got a bit of stick in the early years from mostly White people but also sometimes Black...we shrugged it off as ‘their problem’.

Now I’m having to come to terms with the assertion that I am racist because I am White and that includes me being racist towards my own husband 🥺. Also DH has been watching (understandably) a lot of stuff from America and I can feel that his attitude towards me has shifted a little.

Before I get flamed I know that my individual relationship has no significance in the wide world but I’m just answering OPs question from my personal point of view. I feel that I have done my DH a great disservice and our relationship did cause a rift in his family and I now accept that his sisters had a valid argument although I didn’t see it at the time.

@IShaggedAMarriedMan

acknowledging racism when all white people benefit from privilege I am old, poor, unattractive, female and from a culture that gets 'fun' poked at.

But I'm privileged because I am white.

But if there were 2 people who were all the things you have stated, but one was black and one was white, only one of them would benefit from white privilege, clearly. Having white privilege doesn’t mean you live in a golden castle and your husband is a prince.

Well obviously the person I'm helping is myself, by understanding race a bit better and how I fit into the whole concept of racism and inequalities in society.

And I guess, indirectly, being better educated about that, and considering my actions and society based on that, it helps me to be more mindful of how seemingly innocent actions/words can hurt other people or support/exacerbate inequalities. So I might act in ways that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Obviously, just listening to someone saying "you're a bad person" while I self-flagellate and yelp "yes, tell me more about how I'm a bad person!" wouldn't achieve anything. It's not a penance.

I think most pps got it.
I think most of this thread has been very good.

Other pps were very much q.e.d.

The issue of race can be compared with sexism, but sexes are a dichotomy and are real.
Race is more complex. It doesn't exist in biological terms and it is purely a social construct. Plus, there are many "races" and many histories, and thus priviledge can also vary.

The thing is that most people don't like complexity either.
So, dialogue can be very difficult.

I think some are offended in case it is thought they are racist. We need to be able to talk about issues if we expect to ever overcome them though. I think its easy to not see what you dont experience

Because the vast majority of whites don't like to think they could be racist. Being called racist is somehow worse than BEING racist. For a lot of white people, racism is extreme things like the KKK or dogshit through letterboxes or shouting the n-word, but more subtle and insidious types of racism, such as Raheem Sterling being treated in a very different way to white footballers who get a pass for the things he's criticised for, pass them by. Or they imagine your average racist as some tattooed shaven-headed football hooligan, not a nice middle-class woman.

People as a whole get defensive when accused of being discriminatory towards another group. And honestly, on here, I think there are some people who just don't like black people.

@CatSmith

I’m white. I’m not offended by black people talking about racism.

I’m very aware it does happen.
What does offend me is when people think it’s only whites that can be racist!

Exactly this.

All of us (black or white) know racism exists, I suspect most of us abhor that and do what we can to try to call anyone out on it if we come into contact with them, or consciously try to think about how our words or actions can be misconstrued or interpreted. I would hope so anyway.

Most people accept that white privilege exists. In daily life, white people can try to counteract it with their individual actions when they meet with an opportunity to do so. They cannot undo the undoubted wrongs done throughout history, people can only be accountable for their own actions.

Racism is not just white on black, it is much deeper/broader than that and I find it personally very sad that generalisations are slung about on MN which perpetuate that myth.

I hate these divisive black/white question threads. I would never disclose my colour on here, because it is, or should be irrelevant, with a few specific exceptions.

Is the black MN section not up and running yet?