Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

@Echobelly

Yes, people are fragile and think they're being called racist and are being asked to apologise or defend themselves. When actually they just need to shut up and listen, and consider why they can't assert 'this country is not at all racist'.

Here's another example of why people may seem resistant to talking about it.

Most people won't respond well to "shut up and listen" but if you only want the argument and don't care about changing things that's the way to go.

Posted far too soon. I meant as in contrast to those who grew up in other parts of the world where there isn't the right to vote, and where speaking your mind is reason enough to end up in prison. Or not to have grown up in places like sub Saharan Africa or the slums of India or Latin America. There are other examples of course.

So why is it so hard to accept that those of us who are white in this country benefit from white privilege? I've never had to face stop and search in my life, unlike the experience that black people face on a daily basis.

Mainly guilt. For me it’s a feeling of being responsible for my whole race, black people thinking in just another white racist. Also feeling helpless, I hate racism, I can never understand why someone can be seen as less by skin colour. But then I also feel as a white person I have nothing to contribute as I’ve never experienced it, so I keep quiet. Listen & learn

I've never had to face stop and search in my life, unlike the experience that black people face on a daily basis.

But is that more to do with your sex, where you live, how you behave ie hanging around in a gang, hanging out in dodgy areas etc?

We live in London and white boys hanging around in gangs, creating trouble of some sort are stopped and searched.

I doubt people living in middle class areas, generally going about their business are stopped and searched more than kids hanging around in rough working class areas. There is much more to this than just race and I'm not saying that there's not a problem just that it's not as binary as some would like to make it.

@EDSGFC

I've never had to face stop and search in my life, unlike the experience that black people face on a daily basis.

But is that more to do with your sex, where you live, how you behave ie hanging around in a gang, hanging out in dodgy areas etc?

We live in London and white boys hanging around in gangs, creating trouble of some sort are stopped and searched.

I doubt people living in middle class areas, generally going about their business are stopped and searched more than kids hanging around in rough working class areas. There is much more to this than just race and I'm not saying that there's not a problem just that it's not as binary as some would like to make it.

This is just so wrong and ignorant that I don't even want to spare the effort to address parts of it. For every one white boy hanging around in a gang on the corner who gets searched, there's a black boy walking home from school or the park who gets the same treatment. Probably even more. And I live in London, too. You clearly have access to the internet, and can speak English, so I can only assume you're being deliberately obtuse now. It's so sad to see opinions like this persisting in what should be an advanced society.

Just catching up on the thread...
Two thoughts:

1. There is a difference between being discriminated against and the inconvenience of not being in the majority group. I am white, when I lived in subsaharan Africa and Central America it wasn't always easy. For instance, I couldn't find beauty products or clothes that fit well. It wasn't that the host cultures had particularly wanted to snub me, it just wasn't be practical to cater to my specific needs.
2. A lot (not all!) of non-white people in Britain are more like expats than down-trodden minorities. They behave the same way that many British people do when they work in Hong Kong or Dubai for example. They are here chasing opportunity, they go to stores that sell the treats they like to eat, they maintain their cultures, and they hang out with other countrymen. They aren't desperate to assimilate and they are quite confident in who they are.

I live in Leeds and have driven through the city centre and probably been in virtually every part of the city, in the 15 years I've lived here, and I've never been stopped and searched. Neither has my DH. Leeds has its fair share of criminal activity, same as other cities.

Whatever the reason, stop and search isn't part of my every day life.

“But is that more to do with your sex, where you live, how you behave ie hanging around in a gang, hanging out in dodgy areas etc?

We live in London and white boys hanging around in gangs, creating trouble of some sort are stopped and searched.

I doubt people living in middle class areas, generally going about their business are stopped and searched more than kids hanging around in rough working class areas. There is much more to this than just race and I'm not saying that there's not a problem just that it's not as binary as some would like to make it.”

I work in London. I have colleagues who are young Black men - teachers and TAs - they aren’t in gangs, don’t hang about the street but have been regularly stopped and searched for crimes such as driving while Black. You have no idea.

Just to add my 2c worth. As a white woman, I am not at all offended by black people talking about racism. Black people, Asian people, Middle Eastern people are, after all, the people with the most experience of it and who are most affected by it. Why should they not talk about it?

@Kolo

I think they (we) go to defensive as an initial reaction. It's quite hard work to unpick such complex and ingrained thoughts and feelings. And it doesn't ever end. So much easier to just deny it.

I agree with this, people get defensive because they think they are being blamed.

I agree with this, people get defensive because they think they are being blamed.

Well, we are being blamed. The British ran the slave trade, we made our money from it, our prestigious buildings, our businesses.
And even though the vast majority of the population did not run the slave trade or profit from it, as their lives were probably very basic and poor and often miserable and short, we are all to blame and we must compensate the black people for it or hang our heads in shame.

I am surprised at how angry, or maybe annoyed would be a better word, white people I know are about the damaging statues, BLM marches etc. Unacknowledged racism imv. But I think that if you accuse people of something, eg the slave trade, their first response is defensive and irritated.

The stop and search by police - police are judged on results - I doubt they are deliberately doing thousands of unnecessary searches or they are wasting police time and money. Police are short of staff and money, are they really just doing this because all of them hate black people?

One problem is new immigrants, asylum seekers cannot work in the uk as they don't have a work permit. So most of these people are very likely to turn to crime as their only option.

Or should say SOME of them are likely to turn to crime as their only option.

You don't have to agree that white immigrants huddle together too, but that's how it is🤷🏻 Not in my experience, so that’s how it is🤷🏻‍♀️

They’re not or at least some (even most) are not. Those who are, it’s probably for different reasons- maybe they feel embarrassed, guilty, responsible. Some racist types probably don’t like to have their behavior scrutinized.

But best thing to remember is white people are people just like black people and are all different.

I see the treatment of third class passengers on the Titanic has been used to describe how they suffered.

I don’t deny they didn’t have it easy, however I have ancestors who survived the horrors of the Middle Passage.

I don’t like to make competitions out of issues but that whataboutery stung.

I've never had to face stop and search in my life, unlike the experience that black people face on a daily basis.

But is that more to do with your sex, where you live, how you behave ie hanging around in a gang, hanging out in dodgy areas etc?

This isn’t correct. The last time my dh was stopped was driving into the City, in his own car, dressed in his usual shirt and tie. He hasn’t been a teen for decades and is about as law abiding as you can get.

@Itisbetter

You don't have to agree that white immigrants huddle together too, but that's how it is🤷🏻 Not in my experience, so that’s how it is🤷🏻‍♀️

Have you heard of French and Spanish British enclaves?

The stop and search by police - police are judged on results - I doubt they are deliberately doing thousands of unnecessary searches or they are wasting police time and money. Police are short of staff and money, are they really just doing this because all of them hate black people?

Stop and search happens when the police officers are already on the street. They can stop anyone they like then. No extra resources are needed.

One problem is new immigrants, asylum seekers cannot work in the uk as they don't have a work permit. So most of these people are very likely to turn to crime as their only option.

Even assuming that's true, and with some instead of most, how is this relevant to this thread?

"New immigrants" have work permits. People go to the UK already armed with work permits when they immigrate.
And asylum seekers are supported while their case is being considered.

And is this based on statistics or just a gut feeling?

I'm never sure where I fall in these conversations as someone who is half First Nations Canadian but looks white and didn't grow up on a reserve so doesn't have status. I'm white, but I'm not white.

All I know is I'm very grateful for what's happening now. The conversation happening now has opened my eyes so much, and put names to things I've felt but never knew others did to.

So I'm not offended when black people talk about racism, I'm enlightened. I hope it continues.

@Guineapigbridge

Haven't RTFT. For me dividing up the world by race is uncomfortable because in my generation we were taught that all men are equal and that in the words of Martin Luther King, we shoudl be judged not by the colour of our skin but from the content of our character. I'm uncomfortable about those values of equality being undermined. I don't think identity politics are helpful and I think race based identity politics is particularly unhelpful.

Yes to this

I know what the words mean @Phoenix21 What would I have “heard” about them?

@Itisbetter

You don't have to agree that white immigrants huddle together too, but that's how it is🤷🏻 Not in my experience, so that’s how it is🤷🏻‍♀️

@Itisbetter Schrodinger is correct. White immigrants have been huddling together for centuries. Take the Huguenots for example. They were French Protestants who were persecuted in France and many settled in England. Most lived in Spitalfields in London.

www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/england/london/article_1.shtml

Well she’s correct in that it happens in some places, though I wasn’t really talking about newly arrived immigrants. I’m sure most people have heard of “the French quarter” or “little Italy” or indeed “China Town” in large cities/books/historically. What we were discussing was BAME in villages and small towns, and rural communities. What I was saying was that white migrants are seen in all these areas but non-white less so. So it isn’t so much the huddling together of “like minded” people but more your colour that is the issue.

@Guineapigbridge the world already is divided up by race.
Saying "let's all just get along" doesn't stop this.