Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

FredaFrogspawn

Yeah, I do have an idea.

My point was that many of the people stopped and searched are doing something that warrants them being stopped and searched. We should be bothered by the people who are stopped with no reason, who are doing nothing that warrants it.

All of the outrage that seems to get publicity centres around people who are committing crimes and people are upset when the police catch up with them. How are people like Jacob Blake, in the US, turning into heroes, with the NFL putting his name on shirts and stuff?

@Itisbetter

I know what the words mean *@Phoenix21* What would I have “heard” about them?

I’m point out that white immigrants do huddle together too. Mind you on rereading I’m not clear if you are dis/agreeing whether they do.

For me dividing up the world by race is uncomfortable because in my generation we were taught that all men are equal and that in the words of Martin Luther King, we shoudl be judged not by the colour of our skin but from the content of our character. I'm uncomfortable about those values of equality being undermined.

Those values can't be undermined because they never existed. That was Martin Luther King's dream, not a description for what was actually happening. At no point in human history has everyone ever all been equal, and ignoring systematic racism or trying to minimize it by calling it "identity politics" isn't going to make anyone equal anytime soon.

@Itisbetter

Well she’s correct in that it happens in some places, though I wasn’t really talking about newly arrived immigrants. I’m sure most people have heard of “the French quarter” or “little Italy” or indeed “China Town” in large cities/books/historically. What we were discussing was BAME in villages and small towns, and rural communities. What I was saying was that white migrants are seen in all these areas but non-white less so. So it isn’t so much the huddling together of “like minded” people but more your colour that is the issue.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say!

@Itisbetter

You don't have to agree that white immigrants huddle together too, but that's how it is🤷🏻 Not in my experience, so that’s how it is🤷🏻‍♀️

Fine ok. I made it all up. No white immigrant huddles. The reason why they are often found in certain places with community centres, shops, se even have schools etc., is totally different. No huddling. Probably a coincidence. 🙄 Good talk.

Itisbetter

And I'm not talking about every individual case. I was addressing the point that white people are saying they have never been stopped. I'm sure there are plenty of black people who can say the same. That's not saying there aren't people stopped wrongly. It's saying that the majority of stops are justified.

Tacitus:
“Be assured those will be thy worst enemies, not to whom thou hast done evil, but who have done evil to thee. And those will be thy best friends, not to whom thou hast done good, but who have done good to thee.”

“To show resentment at a reproach is to acknowledge that one may have deserved it.”

@EDSGFC I think you are wrong on that one

I don't mind anyone talking about racism and anyone white or black can tell others to shut up but that does not mean they have to shut up. Whether we are black or white we should not be silenced. If some people don't like it that's their problem. Let freedom of speech prevail.

@EDSGFC

Itisbetter

And I'm not talking about every individual case. I was addressing the point that white people are saying they have never been stopped. I'm sure there are plenty of black people who can say the same. That's not saying there aren't people stopped wrongly. It's saying that the majority of stops are justified.

@EDSGFC any evidence to back up the claim that black people are disproportionally stopped and searched is justified? Do we just take your word for it?

I think it’s important to also recognise that there is hostility on the other side of the coin too. My DH’s best friend who is black, and was best man at our wedding many years ago, married his long term white girlfriend 5 years ago, and received a lot more negativity from his own family and friends (black) regarding his relationship with a white woman. It still continues now.

@EDSGFC

FredaFrogspawn

Yeah, I do have an idea.

My point was that many of the people stopped and searched are doing something that warrants them being stopped and searched. We should be bothered by the people who are stopped with no reason, who are doing nothing that warrants it.

All of the outrage that seems to get publicity centres around people who are committing crimes and people are upset when the police catch up with them. How are people like Jacob Blake, in the US, turning into heroes, with the NFL putting his name on shirts and stuff?

But that’s not the case is it? There are so many examples of black people being stopped because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

SchrodingersImmigrant

Of course it's true. How did the East End of London become a place where Jewish immigrants settled, how some London boroughs today have large populations of Polish people for example? It stands to reason that people will congregate with people they have things in common with - the language, food, customs and so on, just as the British expats do when they move abroad.

and received a lot more negativity from his own family and friends (black) regarding his relationship with a white woman. It still continues now. I’m not sure how you’d judge “a lot more” and I wonder if it’s really true. Delivery can be different but sentiment the same.

But that’s not the case is it? There are so many examples of black people being stopped because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And those are the cases we should be hearing about. Not people wanted for child sex charges, turning up at the house of someone who has a restraining order against him. Or boys in London protesting about being stopped, passers by seeing themselves as avenging angels yelling at the police for daring to stop someone innocently going about their day when lo and behold a large carving knife is found in the sleeve of the kids jacket - no, they weren't innocent and that search was justified. Why aren't we hearing only about innocent people who are stopped?

itisbetter absolutely true. Caused a rift in the family. But you are deluded if you really think this sort of situation doesn’t happen, because it does. This isn’t an isolated incident, and I bet if you asked anyone BAME if this exists, they would say it does. Not saying at all that it doesn’t happen the opposite way, because it does, but please don’t think that some BAME aren’t also prejudiced or judgemental regarding integration.

@Livelovebehappy

I think it’s important to also recognise that there is hostility on the other side of the coin too. My DH’s best friend who is black, and was best man at our wedding many years ago, married his long term white girlfriend 5 years ago, and received a lot more negativity from his own family and friends (black) regarding his relationship with a white woman. It still continues now.

This happened to me. I dated a black man for three years. My family treated him as they did all of my other boyfriends. His family never accepted me. He was invited to all of my extended family events eg weddings, birthday parties etc. I never met any of his extended family, his dad never knew of my existence to the extent that I could only go to his house if his dad wasn't there and his mum would get increasingly agitated if he was coming home soon. She tolerated me being there but never said more to me than hello and goodbye. His brothers were fine with me and we would socialise with them but not with older generations.

But that's fine I guess because I'm white.

Knobs come in all shapes sizes and colours is NOT news.

@Itisbetter

Knobs come in all shapes sizes and colours is NOT news.

Yes they do. It's about time we recognised that.

@Livelovebehappy

I think it’s important to also recognise that there is hostility on the other side of the coin too. My DH’s best friend who is black, and was best man at our wedding many years ago, married his long term white girlfriend 5 years ago, and received a lot more negativity from his own family and friends (black) regarding his relationship with a white woman. It still continues now.

Same when I married an Indian man. A lot of dirty looks and comments from Indian women, my family and friends totally fine with it.

I actually feel we are moving away from multicultural ideas towards segregationist ideas, and I don't agree with that movement.

I still think that different ethnicities being free to marry, have children etc is a social good. This idea that being the one white person in my family means I'm micro-oppressing the rest of them is nuts.

Regarding the OP, what BovaryX and Empress have said.

In general, I'm not really into beating my breast performatively. Tell me about a material issue, and I'll try to take action - donate, write letters, vote, volunteer.

Tell me I suffer the original sin of whiteness and I'll quietly remove myself from the conversation.

I don't find self-flagellation effective or mature. Quiet material support? Sure.

'white people' are not a homogenous group. The same as 'black people' aren't.

I'm not racist and have no problem with people talking about it. Those who have a problem with it are probably ignorant, stupid and/or racist.

Tell me I suffer the original sin of whiteness and I'll quietly remove myself from the conversation.

Yes, this.

@MTNT

I think because they see themselves as the supreme race and see black people discussing racism as insolent and speaking out against “elders and betters”

Whilst of course denying they are in any way racist.

You just have to read any books on British empire to see where this attitude came from.

If this is the world you live in in your head then I feel sorry for you .

@Cadent statistically the rate of finding something of interest when doing a stop and search for black and white people is about the same at 30%. This does indicate that despite the increased numbers that the increase is justified. But these are Mets numbers do I would suppose you are more likely to find stuff when searching in hackney or Acton than Richmond or esher. So perhaps there are just indications that people who live in lower income areas are more likely to be carrying knives or drugs and these areas just happen to have more black people in them. The met didn't make up the reasons for needing operation trident back in the day, there was a real issue with black on black violence.

@Itisbetter

Knobs come in all shapes sizes and colours is NOT news.

I completely agree with this. I have met some proper ones of many races.