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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Questions for white people

730 replies

Questionspandemic · 15/09/2020 12:54

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

OP posts:
Fucket · 15/09/2020 22:39

Well the village I grew up in and left definitely has a problem with outsiders of any kind. They’d literally be the talk of the town. Likewise if anyone had the audacity to be gay. It was embarrassing and narrow minded. I’m glad I left tbh.

WorraLiberty · 15/09/2020 22:40

Posted too soon...

Because quite often whether someone is black, white or mixed race is often fairly relevant on this kind of thread.

PatriciaPerch · 15/09/2020 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhYeahYouSuck · 15/09/2020 22:44

@FreekStar

The most disadvantaged and lowest achieving group in Britain are poor white children. That's fact.
And males more than females.
Itisbetter · 15/09/2020 22:46

If the unfamiliar wasn’t a negative experience , then there would be no grouping.

Guineapigbridge · 15/09/2020 22:47

Haven't RTFT.
For me dividing up the world by race is uncomfortable because in my generation we were taught that all men are equal and that in the words of Martin Luther King, we shoudl be judged not by the colour of our skin but from the content of our character. I'm uncomfortable about those values of equality being undermined. I don't think identity politics are helpful and I think race based identity politics is particularly unhelpful.

Guineapigbridge · 15/09/2020 22:48

I really agree - I think poverty is the greatest injustice in the UK and the greatest cause of all disadvantages, regardless of ethnicity.

This, too.

Itisbetter · 15/09/2020 22:49

No I don’t declare my race to help with that oh so useful profiling (aka racial stereotyping).

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/09/2020 22:50

@WorraLiberty

Posted too soon...

Because quite often whether someone is black, white or mixed race is often fairly relevant on this kind of thread.

Yeah. It gives an insight into experiences of different people, nationalities and ethnicities. Everyone experiences things differently.
lborgia · 15/09/2020 22:51

I think the problem is change. The minute we are asked to consider how we treat others, and they’re showing signs of taking a real place in decision making, generally people freak out because they might end up having to change their position in society.

I’ve been accused in the past of being a champagne socialist, because I have a well paid job, and yet am, in fact, a socialist. Thing is, if I had to do with less, because I was paying more taxes to take others off the poverty line, I would not be horrified, or feel hard done by. Because it’s relative. I might have to re-learn to live on $1000 less a year or something, but compared to what I do have that’s manageable.

For those who are white, and are asked to reframe their thinking, actions, etc etc, it may feel as if they are having to take a step down (literally) from their position of advantage, and lose power, which makes them panic, and feel scared.

It’s ridiculous, but I think it’s true. It’s about “then where will I be?” What are the long term repercussions on their own lives?

I think human nature is to group with those you identify with, that makes sense, and keep a clique. But the white invaders ruined that. They didn’t explore, they didn’t find out about other races and groups. They raped. They murdered. They oppressed, and forced into slavery. For hundreds of years.

This has forever changed the way that the dynamic works. Everyone wants their group to be the most successful. Everyone thinks their group is “the best”. But this has been obliterated, and now we’re dealing with hundreds of years of of propaganda.

I am white, and female. I have grown up being dismissed, side-lined, passed-over, impacted by poverty, disability, and sexism. But equally, I have succeeded because of my class, my colour, my looks, access to education, and maybe a bit because I’m clever.

It’s been exhausting, and it probably represents 1% of what it would be like as a black, working-class, “plain”, disabled, clever woman.

The disadvantage of being born into poverty is huge. But you can get past it, and is something the person themselves can probably do something about, given some access points.

The disadvantage of being born black is almost entirely in the hands of others. It was created by others, and the way people treat you every day is their action, not yours.

I have probably made a mistake in there because I’m not black, so it’s difficult to speak, but that’s what it looks like to me. This is not to say that all black women are victims, but that they have to achieve 50% more just to start moving forward. Just to be allowed into the conversation.

Tillygetsit · 15/09/2020 22:53

I totally agree with @sanitisethat. Said more eloquently that I ever could.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/09/2020 22:57

@Itisbetter

If the unfamiliar wasn’t a negative experience , then there would be no grouping.
But there often isn't even a chance to get "the experience". Many people start life here by living amongst their own because of language barriers or because they found their ads for rooms etc on websites in their country. I know. I did that. There is a myriad of reasons why communities like that happened. It is not just to hide from racism/xenophobia. Many people then stay in them or stay close because their family or friends are there. Myriad of reasons. Some may do it because of racism outside, but it would be not be correct to say the huddling happens mainly because of racism from my experience and my friends.
Babamamananarama · 15/09/2020 22:57

If you really want a good and thorough answer to this question, I'd recommend reading Me and a White Supremacy by Layla Saad.

Itisbetter · 15/09/2020 23:04

So how do you explain that some races/colours/nationalities are fairly widespread and some aren’t? Why for example do Scottish people or stick to one area of London but others do? Could it be that white immigrants don’t need to live together. Why?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/09/2020 23:14

I can't speak for Scottish people since I am not Scottish.

As I said above white immigrants do huddle too.

Itisbetter · 15/09/2020 23:21

I’m not sure I agree.

torn2020 · 15/09/2020 23:22

For the same reason that men get offended by discussions about the patriarchy - it's uncomfortable to confront your own privilege and sit with the knowledge that you've benefited from unearned advantage your entire life, to confront what that does to your sense of self-importance and accept that the role of an ally is to take a back seat and allow other voices to shine. People get angry when they're made to feel uncomfortable or guilty, it's easier.

I'm hesitant to recommend white authors but Peggy McIntosh's paper on white privilege from the 80's is worth a read.

EDSGFC · 15/09/2020 23:36

@AMemeByAnyOtherName

"People saying that white people are only where they are today because of what our ancestors did."

Which I'm pretty sure no educated person could argue is false. And doesn't mean you need to physically pay for something. But acknowledging it would be nice. And even better, would be to listen to what people are saying would help to bring them equity in our current society and redress the balance, instead of chanting 'slavery ended years ago so, get on with it'. A dismissive mantra that I've never quite been able to understand.

Well, there are calls for payment to be made physically, so there's that.

Plus, how do you know my ancestors were ever involved in slavery? Half of them weren't even from England, they were Polish Jews who fled here to escape persecution so I doubt they played a part in the English Empire.

Should the English expect the Italians to apologise for what the Romans did to the people of England when they invaded? Surely it's what we do now that matters, not what happened generations ago that none of us had any part in?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/09/2020 23:37

@Itisbetter

I’m not sure I agree.
You don't have to agree that white immigrants huddle together too, but that's how it is🤷🏻
TrolleyProblem · 15/09/2020 23:39

Because we're the default and any interruption of that feels like disruption.

WorraLiberty · 15/09/2020 23:40

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I can't speak for Scottish people since I am not Scottish.

As I said above white immigrants do huddle too.

Yes, my parents were white Irish immigrants and when they first came to England they moved to Kilburn and then Highbury, which were both hugely populated by Irish people.

They eventually settled in Redbridge which again was hugely populated by Irish at the time.

Now it's hugely populated by Asians and has been for the last 30 years.

The attraction is often the community, the shops (catering for their tastes), pubs, places of worship and standing a better chance of gaining employment as a lot of immigrants like to help each other out in that respect. Plus their kids are more likely to be at school with other kids of the same descent.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/09/2020 23:43

I feel like I should make sure it's understood that I am not saying racism doesn't exist etc. I am really just now talking about communities huddling together and that's a case for different ethnicities and nationalities.

LastTrainEast · 15/09/2020 23:45

@Questionspandemic

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

You say "Obviously not all white people are racist" but others say all white people are. Apparently all people of the same color are identical in action and opinion. That attitude is pretty much the definition of racism and will piss some people off.

The other day i was told that to discuss any other issue online (global warming for example) was offensive.

Then again "people talking about racism" includes BLMUK which is essentially a terrorist group.

Some in the UK might get tired of being blamed for American laws and practices. As though a protest here can change what trigger happy police do in the US.

Also "talking about racism" now seems to include criminal damage.

Of course real racism needs addressing, but if you're noticing resistance it will likely be one of those reasons.

SylvanianFrenemies · 15/09/2020 23:47

A few reasons, not limited to...

Because they are dicks.
Because they are racists.
Because they don't understand.
Because they don't recognise that just because their lives aren't perfect, doesn't mean that white people aren't advantaged in general.

Mittens030869 · 15/09/2020 23:51

You can also argue that we're privileged to be living in a western democracy