I’m not a fucking bigot.

[FuckHim]

Name changed.

I read the post about the attached poster. As a WOMAN who had a difficult pregnancy, as a woman who considered has had an abortion, I shared this with my DP. We’ve had arguments about woman’s rights before, and he thinks I’m transphobic. I’m not. I just know that women don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. This was another example.

DP has told me how I am wrong for being upset that woman aren’t referenced (but ‘men’ and ‘people’ are) in a pregnancy poster. I am transphobic, nasty and cruel.

Am I wrong to be upset? Considering the abuse I had when abortion came up, this matters to me. It matters so much. My self worth is at an all time low. I already felt disgusted after we had sex yesterday (his pleasure, not mine), and an argument quickly escalated where he kicked me out.

The argument has escalated this time with him taking me keys, telling me to leave, but be back by morning because he has work (so do I, and much earlier than him).

Now he’s decided I’m wrong for trying to leave and actually I’m supposed to stay with DS so he can go. I’m horrible person for ‘putting him’ in that position where I leave.

I’ve been feeling shit and low about myself. All I’ve wanted is a cuddle. In terms of the above poster, I feel like my opinion matters more as a ‘person’ who carries babies. He thinks I’m a bigot. Am I?

I don’t know what I’m asking. I know I’m done with this but I can’t cope with my opinions and views being diminished into nothing.

@araiwa

Misogyny on one side, bigots on the other

Such a pathetic level of discussion

araiwa is right OP. You’re stuck between a misogynist and the bigoted TRAs. He is pathetic even discussing this with you, rather than agreeing that the Marie Stopes Clinic were completely out of order, trying to erase the word women. You need to protect your child from this horrible woman hating bigot, who is using the twisting of language and erasure of the word women, as another stick to beat you with. The line between the TRAs and the MRAs is none existent.

@LouiseNW.. someone else answered but no.. not all trans people have full sex reassignment surgery. I don't have easy access right now to percentages but many trans identifying people have not already had this surgery.

@DameCelia.. thanks for your post. It makes a lot of sense. I would add that the use of the word woman in connection with biologically female functions is considered trans phobic because it excludes trans women but it is fine to use the word women when referring to spaces dedicated to women as long as that includes male bodied women.

Of course you aren't.

There are a lot of topics around that seem to making people very upset with other people. I suppose that's always been the case even back in the day with the US fear of communism. Now we have these newer issues, never mind Brexit/Remain and Labour and Tory.

It is possible to have different views and still get on. My son is a vegan and I am very pro meat/fish. We get along and are kind to each other and listen to the views of the other and discuss things and it's fine.

On the topic of woman we need to keep making it clear women are who they are and if we erase or cancel them in a sense then we do them harm (as ever - men have been trying to wipe us out for ages. I remember a Saudi client showing me his new brochure very proudly - very nicely printed and it featured everyone who worked in that company. 100% were men!

and hopefully it is clear that I do not agree with that assertion

Please get some support from a domestic abuse charity to ensure that domestic abuse is included in the divorce and childcare proceedings. Also look at The Freedom Project. The way you write about your normal experiences with your partner are is incredibly upsetting. He is extremely abusive, psychologically, verbally and it sounds like sexually (if you are only have sex with him because he wants it). I'm so sorry you had a child with this man. Re-read your posts and imagine your son acting this way towards a woman when he's an adult, or your friend describing her partner this way. Please step back and really read what you have written.

You're definitely not a bigot. I'm so sorry this happened, your partner sounds horrible and abusive.

I’m sorry, he kicked you out and then told you to be back by morning?! What a fu king nerve?! Kick him out. He is a waste of space.Tell him to f k right off. Arrogant pr*ck! Don’t put up with him anymore.
People will only treat you how you let them. Hope you get the support you need and deserve. Good luck.

You are not a bigot. You are not transphobic. Your "D"P is an abusive dickhead.

You are not a bigot.

Women are being erased from our own sex class.

You are right. Your DP is wrong.

The misogyny of the trans movement is so breathtakingly bad it is almost too bad to believe it’s true. But it is.

It’s a men’s rights movement.

I couldn’t stay with a DP who didn’t see how wrong it is. Sorry, OP.

But people can use contraception, people can have wanted pregnancies, etc. Not just women.

The thing I have about this transphobia in the name of feminism is that it absolutely smacks of the exact same stuff I hate about the "fragile white male" who freaks out about anyone other than there narrow world view being either portrayed or included in forms of media.

The truth is straight heteronormative women will always far outnumber any trans women or trans men who don't identify as women. If you can get absolutely up in arms about stuff that is made to cater for and be inclusive to this small minority and isn't all about you and your experience then honestly, yes, to me that does say something about you.

Your dp being horrible is a completely separate issue and you sound completely incompatible.

But people can use contraception, people can have wanted pregnancies, etc. Not just women

@CloudyVanilla. The language used is 'people' and 'men'. The word 'woman' is not used. Can you not see the issue with that?

@CloudyVanilla

But people can use contraception, people can have wanted pregnancies, etc. Not just women.

The thing I have about this transphobia in the name of feminism is that it absolutely smacks of the exact same stuff I hate about the "fragile white male" who freaks out about anyone other than there narrow world view being either portrayed or included in forms of media.

The truth is straight heteronormative women will always far outnumber any trans women or trans men who don't identify as women. If you can get absolutely up in arms about stuff that is made to cater for and be inclusive to this small minority and isn't all about you and your experience then honestly, yes, to me that does say something about you.

Your dp being horrible is a completely separate issue and you sound completely incompatible.

What a load of complete cobblers. Only women and girls/females can get pregnant. No matter how someone with a female body identifies, they can’t get a woman pregnant, in the same way someone with a male body can’t get pregnant. I’m past caring about the hurt feelings of those who run roughshod over women’s rights and who wish to twist language into knots, rather than use the word woman.

You cannot erase the word woman without undermining pretty much half the population. Some will be ok with it, but I’m not.

You certainly are not a bigot OP and I'm sorry you've had to put up with this nastiness from him. It's endlessly amazing to me just how fucked up people's thinking can get about the trans thing.

Of fucking course the word 'woman' should be on the fuckin poster!!

Gather yourself and get rid of him. Life will be so much better once you're not getting gas lit and shouted at.

you've already taken lots of the difficult practical steps by separating the households, etc. You just need to try to emotionally disentangle from him. Counselling on your own might help, or completing the Freedom Programme or even reading Lundy Bancroft 'Why Does He Do That?' or 'Should I Stay or Should I Go?'
You're not a bigot. He is a misogynist, abusive arse. But you are strong enough to cut ties and you deserve so much better than him.

It's not complete cobblers, it's a valid opinion shared by many. I never said anyone other than women can get pregnant, it's being trans inclusive to biological females who do not identify as women, but people on here can never seem to get their heads around that, and many openly admit to "not caring about feelings". Which sounds like an innocent statement but it is literal transphobia because of your staunch lack of ability or willingness to allow people to live with dignity if they identify in such a way that is not "acceptable" to you.

Are you honestly telling me that being inclusive to trans men and women is suddenly, or even slowly and gradually, going to erase women from the world and stop any resources being available to them? Again, the vast majority of people in the world have a gender identity that matches their biological sex. If someone makes a resource that chooses to include those who do not fit in that category, no I am not going to rear my head up at that as I'm understanding and empathetic and don't believe that the world will suddenly be turned upside down by a few people with uteruses not liking being called women. It's honestly beggars belief how far this has gone, and while I agree with some arguments the huge amounts of transphobia I see on mumsnet is fucking disgusting.

I'm not replying anymore because it's honestly pointless, no one can look at the wider context and just screams ERASURE like all of the fucking 3.5 billion women on the planet are going to lose their status of womanhood if we allow trans women to identify as women. It truly boggles my mind and please don't bother to pose your "arguments" to me, I've heard them all before and the point is again the "threat" trans women (never trans men) poses to womanhood is so overblown and exaggerated it's laughable.

OP leave your partner he is a cunt.

Cloudy language is important. It matters. Woman as a word is too important to erase.

@CloudyVanilla

Surely if we can't use the words woman/women in relation to pregnancy then we also can't use the words man/men?

Cloudy Vanilla, abortion isn't legal everywhere now, and even in countries where it is legal, there is always an ongoing debate about the terms under which it is legal.

This is an issue that ONLY affects women. If an organisation like Marie Stopes can't bring themselves to type the word 'women' for fear of causing offence, we cannot talk about this issue in any coherent way.

Access to abortion is important, because access to birth control is essential to women's ability to function as equal members of society - regardless of how they identify.

'Sex' has nothing to do with identity, it is a completely neutral medical condition like blood type. If we can't talk about sex any hope of equality is dead in the water.

Again, the vast majority of people in the world have a gender identity that matches their biological sex.

Many people, including me, find the concept of gender identity restrictive and regressive. I also don't believe in God. I should be able to express both opinions.

It truly boggles my mind and please don't bother to pose your "arguments" to me, I've heard them all before

Heard, but not listened apparently.

Are you honestly telling me that being inclusive to trans men and women is suddenly, or even slowly and gradually, going to erase women from the world and stop any resources being available to them?

Women is a term that includes anyone whose sex is female, regardless of their identity.

Yes, I do think that if discussion of sex is restricted because it is regarded as transphobic, women will loose rights.

@CloudyVanilla if they were really trying to be inclusive, why exclude the word women? Inclusive would be women and trans men and people who can get pregnant.

Instead they mention men and people. Surely you can see that is bonkers and wrong and excluding women?

Misogynist poster disregards the humanity of woman in the same way your partner is disregarding you.

Of course you're not a bigot, just a woman with a brain and emotions, like all of us. You need to sort (probably end) your relationship. Then plan for some self care - counselling to deal with the feelings from your abortion and take yourself to the GP to ask about depression.

I'm sorry, OP, hope you have plenty support around you.

I’m meh about the poster. Doesn’t bother me much. Your problem is with your OH. He doesn’t respect you and treats you like shit.

Why would "people with a wanted pregnancy" need abortion services?

Termination on medical grounds.

Cloudy not sure why the last word of your comment surprised me, it really shouldn't have considering the views preceding it. But there you go.

going to erase women from the world and stop any resources being available to them?

No, you can't erase sex.

You can erase legislation that protects the rights of members of a sex.