To want coronavirus to just run it’s course now and get back to normal

[rosieposiepud]

For most of us, we’ll have a cold/feel quite rough for a few days. Dc will barely be effected yet MN is obsessed with shutting schools again. There may be many more deaths from coronavirus still to come, but they’ll be lot’s of deaths from other causes plus massive long term devastation to the economy etc if we carry on like this.

We all want Covid to fuck off. Most want our old lives back.

We can want and be desperate for our old normality as much as we like. Sadly it does not change the fact that Covid is still out there affecting all of us.

But we are not Sweden, Japan or South Korea

And they did different things. One thing in common is no lockdown, which seems unnecessary and rather excessive, and maybe counterproductive

My only worry is that I'll get trampled in the queue for a vaccine by the rush of party-goers.

Anyone who has been going to parties or not following the rules should be right at the back of the queue for any vaccine.

Let's forget all the moral stuff for a minute (although I think that stuff is important but some don't!)

Countries who have high death rates so far (I.e. those who are letting it rip) have worse economic performance. Individual fear can impact the economy more than lockdowns. Normal economy isn't an option right now whether you try and limit virus spread or not.

WHO reckon this will go on for 2 years in countries without vaccines. This consistent with the spanish flu. But everything is looking increasingly hopefully for the vaccine being available for the end of the year. Then 6-9 months to roll it out.

So even if your priority is just minimising economic damage I would suggest support schemes/restrictions to avoid deaths to get us to the end of the year and the vaccine is the best way to do that.

If you are concerned about mental health, I would suggest that the high morbidity from long covid plus grief over deaths would have a pretty poor impact on mental health, just on potentially different groups of people.

What is it about 'normal' that you miss? Would it even be better in a situation where this was left to spread unchecked?

Life is difficult at the moment

The uncertainty is hard to live with but this is how it shall be for sometime

We can’t go back to life right now pre Covid as far too many people would become seriously unwell and die. We are aware the healthcare system couldn’t manage that but the impact on people emotionally would be deeply damaging to society

Well thankfully you're not in charge OP because you're completely clueless.

When the furlough scheme is wrapped up, the job losses start in earnest, the impact on public services become clear, there will be a significant change of tune in line with the OP’s thinking.

I suspect there will NOT be a rush for the vaccine. It will be highly risky having only been tested for a short while. Alot of people will just take their chances I suspect.

@loulouljh I suspect there will NOT be a rush for the vaccine. It will be highly risky having only been tested for a short while. Alot of people will just take their chances I suspect.

It is not a rushed vaccine. It is going through all the normal testing procedures. All that is "rushed" about it is manufacture. All the most promising vaccines are being mass manufactured before they are approved. That way the day they receive proper approval, they will be ready to begin early distribution. Any that do not meet the rigorous requirements for efficacy and safety will be scrapped. To the same end the WHO Covax group is currently working towards ensuring the most fair and effective distribution plan, while countries/trading blocks have already made preliminary purchase orders, such as the 6 the deals the EU has settled.

While many aspects of the vaccine production are sped up to avoid delays. Safety and efficacy testing are not being rushed.

@UsedUpUsername

But we are not Sweden, Japan or South Korea

And they did different things. One thing in common is no lockdown, which seems unnecessary and rather excessive, and maybe counterproductive

I have family in Japan and you cannot compare that country with the UK.

Their version of a lockdown was politely asking people to avoid unnecessary outings, work from home, wear masks and observe social distancing - and everybody did it, completely, no question.

Compare that to the UK where sm is awash with dickheads claiming it's a conspiracy, masks are called muzzles by some, teens gather for illegal raves, people only obey the rules that suit them and threads like this bemoan the curtailing of their god-given right to go to the gym or whatever.

If you are concerned about mental health, I would suggest that the high morbidity from long covid plus grief over deaths would have a pretty poor impact on mental health, just on potentially different groups of people.

I generally have very good mental health but I cried many times at the footage from northern Italy. And back in February/March the thought of what we might have had to live through, hearing trucks at night removing the dead from our cities, was terrifying. I'm so, so glad we never had to live through that. It was such a tough time as it was. We all dodged a mental health bullet in lockdown because as bad as it was, the mental toll of living through that would have devastated many. Even if we had somehow been lucky enough to not have lost loved ones.

And as someone who probably had what is being called "long-Covid" I can't say that did wonders for my mental health either. Not knowing when or if I'd get better. Having brief seeming recoveries only to relapse again within days. Wondering if I'd lost the physical side of my life forever. Losing my fitness and strength. Even still now, having to recognise that there are days when I'm not capable of everything I want to do because one of my remaining post-viral conditions has reared up again.

It's a pandemic. It's scary. We are all having to make sacrifices. Some people more than others. Some have more to lose than others. Some are sick. Some have died. It's not good for our mental health. Nobody whatsoever thinks that there is some magical way for us to act that will have no consequences for anyone. But all we can do, is mitigate the situation. Make the negative consequences be as minimal as possible.

Their version of a lockdown was politely asking people to avoid unnecessary outings, work from home, wear masks and observe social distancing - and everybody did it, completely, no question

Nice set of stereotypes there.

You should know that WFH is not as culturally accepted in Japan (I did live there for many years) so many companies still required employees to come to the office. It’s also nigh impossible to socially distance in urban areas. The trains were still crowded from all appearances, and the government could not legally shut down restaurants and other businesses so
many did not actually shut down at all even as they were politely asked to by the government. So much for being rule followers 🙄

They also have the world’s oldest population, albeit not fat .... but still not good for COVID risk either

I'm more wary and weary of self-appointed covid marshalls than I'm of covid itself.

It's a myth that Sweden did "fuck all", they took quite a few measures, they also relied on almost universal voluntary compliance as did Japan.

South Korea has an absolutely amazing track and trace system (seriously, you should look at the level of detail in their dashboard) whereas the UK doesn't. Ours was supposed to be 'world beating' no less, but falls far short of that.

It's doubtful however that people in the UK would tolerate the level of privacy invasion that the South Korean track and trace system requires or would universally comply with voluntary measures in the way that people in Sweden and Japan have.

Yes, lockdown is a blunt measure that causes large-scale economic and other harms, but it's probably the only measure that you can take when you have wide scale community transmission in large numbers which make track and trace impossible or when you don't yet have efficient testing, tracking and tracing systems in place.

@annabel85

My only worry is that I'll get trampled in the queue for a vaccine by the rush of party-goers.

Anyone who has been going to parties or not following the rules should be right at the back of the queue for any vaccine.

Oh, please! You won't know who's been doing what as it is and medicine is not administered on the basis of morality here, thank fuck.

Why do people think the first round vaccine will be safe? Noone remembers pandemrix? It wasn't even that long ago

You go first, I'll wait for the first round of mass human trials to finish (that's you and your kids)

I think that vast majority of young people have acted very responsibly and that should be acknowledged. To have your social life taken away at that age for many is really difficult. I can only imagine how awful I would have found it not being able to see my friends and my boyfriend

@rawlikesushi

I feel like people have forgotten how many were dying in the peak, when numbers were doubling every two days. It took a full lockdown to bring it under control.

Now restrictions have eased - you can see friends and family, get supermarket deliveries, go shopping and so on - but people are still whining because life isn't entirely back to normal.

Imagine being someone who thinks we should endure half a million deaths, that that is preferable to current restrictions, as if the so-called 'suffering' you are enduring by limiting your contact with others in any way compares with that. When did we become a nation of such pathetic, selfish pricks.

Fully agree. Seems some people have very short memories. They've presumably also forgotten that schools and hospital wards were closing before lockdown due to staff shortages!

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

I think that vast majority of young people have acted very responsibly and that should be acknowledged. To have your social life taken away at that age for many is really difficult. I can only imagine how awful I would have found it not being able to see my friends and my boyfriend

Not just social life. Education suffered, jobs and grad job suffered, internships and summer experiences. A lot of important bits.

Tbh I really worry about young ones if there is another lockdown or similar. "Homeschooling"* is in most cases just not enough. Uni learning on quite a few unies is basically DIY and grades suffer. And yeah. I know that uni IS predominantly your own work, but this is bit of an extreme.

*There are people who properly homeschool their kids, but covid homeschooling is usually not up to that standards as people were just thrown into it

@rawlikesushi Funny that those who look to Sweden for what we should be doing and should have done are often people who hate any interference in their life at all and just want normality. Yet Sweden (and others) approach relies on people being near enough entirely compliant with guidance and/or common sense. Far too many who simply won't do that here, unless forced too kicking and screaming (I.e. tough policing like early lockdown).

Not to mention Swedish death rate is dire compared to neighbouring countries.

@HelloToMyKitty

Their version of a lockdown was politely asking people to avoid unnecessary outings, work from home, wear masks and observe social distancing - and everybody did it, completely, no question

Nice set of stereotypes there.

You should know that WFH is not as culturally accepted in Japan (I did live there for many years) so many companies still required employees to come to the office. It’s also nigh impossible to socially distance in urban areas. The trains were still crowded from all appearances, and the government could not legally shut down restaurants and other businesses so
many did not actually shut down at all even as they were politely asked to by the government. So much for being rule followers 🙄

They also have the world’s oldest population, albeit not fat .... but still not good for COVID risk either

I don't live there so am going off what my sister and her family tell me, so you can fuck off with your 'nice set of stereotypes' and whatever point you're trying to prove.

Quite apart from the fact that your I'm all right Jack and who cares about all the people that aren't sociopathic attitude, how on earth do you think things would be "normal" with coronavirus ripping through the population?

There have been 60,000 deaths so far with only around 7% of the population infected. That means that they can easily be 600,000 deaths before we get herd immunity and that doesn't take into account the fact that many would die because many wouldn't receive medical treatment. There wouldn't just be Covid deaths either because people with other diseases also wouldn't be able to get medical treatment. That could include you or your children . There would also be huge economic devastation, not only because some of the deaths would be amongst working age, but older people would either be dead or they would be staying indoors and not spending money. Schools would not be able to operate anyway as many teachers would decide that their job wasn't worth the risk. Same for NHS workers.

We can't get to normal, whether the virus is ignored or we try to contain/suppress it.

It's a really sad and worrying situation but we can't wish it all away. So yabu.

@PremierInn

Why do people think the first round vaccine will be safe? Noone remembers pandemrix? It wasn't even that long ago

You go first, I'll wait for the first round of mass human trials to finish (that's you and your kids)

I remember it. I had it as did millions of other people. There were about 3.6 additional cases of narcolepsy per 100,000 vaccinated. I'm sure that if there were 3.6 deaths per hundred thousand children who got Covid you would describe it as a "vanishingly small" number. Interesting you don't see it that way in the case of a vaccine. In the case of this vaccine, children will probably be last in the queue anyway unless they are at high risk from coronavirus.

YABU, but also, things are quite close to normal IMO. Social distancing and masks in shops and on public transport as well as the new rule of six are not high prices to pay for less deaths.

Wishing things back to “normal” is not taking into account what would have happened with the virus inexorably spreading if we hadn’t locked down.

I too wish we had a competent government that had used track and trace efficiently from the beginning, but we don’t.