To want coronavirus to just run it’s course now and get back to normal

[rosieposiepud]

For most of us, we’ll have a cold/feel quite rough for a few days. Dc will barely be effected yet MN is obsessed with shutting schools again. There may be many more deaths from coronavirus still to come, but they’ll be lot’s of deaths from other causes plus massive long term devastation to the economy etc if we carry on like this.

@Bupkis

Let those who are vulnerable or afraid shield

I have seen this attitude rolled out in various forms over the last few months. It fills me with worry and fear.

I think, sadly it will influence the attitude to people in society who we class as 'vulnerable'...people who are elderly, disabled, medically vulnerable...disposable.

No ones saying they're disposable but if we want, as a nation, to be able to care for them properly and provide the treatment/medication they need, we do need the economy to function properly.

There's no easy answer

I started wondering how much longer will governments, businesses and people be able to keep all this up. Not just in the UK. No way can there be another lockdown. We are already in recession.

I did start to wonder whether, as pp said, "ripping of plaster" wouldn't be better at this point. At least it would be somewhat controlled unlike when people get fed up.

@Bupkis

Let those who are vulnerable or afraid shield

I have seen this attitude rolled out in various forms over the last few months. It fills me with worry and fear.

I think, sadly it will influence the attitude to people in society who we class as 'vulnerable'...people who are elderly, disabled, medically vulnerable...disposable.

That's already rife on MN. Those of us with illnesses that make us vulnerable have already been classified as "other" and dispensable. Many times I've seen us dismissed as being likely to die soon anyway (we aren't) and so therefore our lives aren't of value.

Absolutely agree. With sensible precautions such as handwashing, social distance where practical and limiting large events we can push through without overwhelming the NHS. I don't mind missing out on concerts, the works Christmas do and spending an hour on the running machine at the gym for a few months. But ordinary life shouldn't be curtailed to this extent. It's creating a society I find quite frightening to live in, god knows how small kids, people with fragile mental health etc are coping.

I'd rather hug my parents than lock them away, they feel exactly the same way.

@EDSGFC

Seriously, the "let it run through" people - do please explain how essential services, you know food supply, supermarkets, petrol stations, national grid, water, sewer works, gas suppliers, telephone and internet providers, emergency services, hospitals, transport systems, schools - remain running while huge numbers of people are at home, or in hospital, with this virus?

This is how I felt at the beginning but now?

Lots have already had it (which may not make them immune but will likely reduce severity) and everyone won't get it at once. Most will only need 2 weeks or so off work. There'd be a huge impact, no doubt, but to the extent that services failed completely?

YANBU I'm absolutely fed up with all, just get on with your lives now! People die of many things each and every day. And I don't for one minute believe it's a big a "pandemic" as it's made out to be. I think people's mental health is at greater harm with all this hysteria

@rosieposiepud

For most of us, we’ll have a cold/feel quite rough for a few days. Dc will barely be effected yet MN is obsessed with shutting schools again. There may be many more deaths from coronavirus still to come, but they’ll be lot’s of deaths from other causes plus massive long term devastation to the economy etc if we carry on like this.

*affected.

Lots have already had it

This is just not true! Only a small % have had it, up to around 6%.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/13/up-to-6-of-englands-population-may-have-had-covid-study-suggests

@alittleprivacy Thank you for your well informed and balanced post, I found it really interesting to read. It's really nice to read a factual, positive post rather than Wot I Think! Thanks for that.

Lots have already had it

Except widespread studies disagree with you - less than 10% of the population has had it which leaves 90% still vulnerable.

Letting it run through means letting it get uncontrollable. 66 million people in the country - what % do you think we could cope with being ill at the same time?

As for most people would only be unwell for two weeks - how many are ill for longer than that? How many hospitals can cope with lots of staff off sick for two weeks? And it's not only the people who have it who would be absent - the household has to quarantine too so that's a large number missing at a time.

Not sure what the figs are for rest if UK, but similar I suspect.

@MissMaple82

YANBU I'm absolutely fed up with all, just get on with your lives now! People die of many things each and every day. And I don't for one minute believe it's a big a "pandemic" as it's made out to be. I think people's mental health is at greater harm with all this hysteria

Really? The whole world is conducting some wide scale prank?

And another quarter haven't even touched their husband's arm and live in hazmat gear.

@alittleprivacy thank you so much for all of that information

@EDSGFC

Lots have already had it

Except widespread studies disagree with you - less than 10% of the population has had it which leaves 90% still vulnerable.

Letting it run through means letting it get uncontrollable. 66 million people in the country - what % do you think we could cope with being ill at the same time?

As for most people would only be unwell for two weeks - how many are ill for longer than that? How many hospitals can cope with lots of staff off sick for two weeks? And it's not only the people who have it who would be absent - the household has to quarantine too so that's a large number missing at a time.

I didn't say it was the answer, I'm just suggesting it's worth consideration, there are still too many questions that there really should be answers to by now.

If 10% have had it the vast majority weren't ill for long. The severity seems to have lessened, so we need to know why.

None of it is clear cut.

I don't think asking people to give up a few parties is too much.

I've already given up 5 months of my life to shielding, so I don't feel guilty about asking people to have a halt on parties for a few months. It's one thing to shield so kids can go back to school, but parties? I also get very angry when people say that older people are near the end of their lives anyway. I still have another 30 years, thank you very much. And while I am sympathetic towards people's 'mental health', how about some sympathy for the mental health of those who are shielding?

I do think we will eventually have a vaccine and within the next year. The pressure to do so is like nothing we've ever seen before, and humans are very creative. My only worry is that I'll get trampled in the queue for a vaccine by the rush of party-goers.

This will pass. We just have to be a bit patient and do what we can to minimize the impact in the meantime.

I think we all agree that we want it over with, but it seems that we are very divided now on how to go forward.
A lot of people on Facebook seem to be deniers.- 'its just flu', 'it isn't killing people anymore', 'we need a holiday', 'we want our old.lives back, 'let it run its course' etc.

I'm in camp.B, let's just hold.on through the winter and carry on being sensible and cautious. I think we need to see more long term effects stories from young people - instead of them thinking it's going to kill their gran, let them see that it could totally disable themselves. I also think the PP had it totally right about the vaccine. Keep the good news stories coming about how imminent it is. Of course,.persuading people to have the vaccine will be a whole other issue...

@SylvanianFrenemies
Not writing anyone off. Just stating a fact the people do die and we have lost sight of this as a society.

Everyone's needs are important. So should the needs of the vulnerable / old / frail in respect of covid trump those whose mental health is suffering? is it OK for someone to commit suicide because they have been unable to get the help they need because of Covid, ditto cancer, heart attacks etc. Just asking - because these are the things my friends / family have died of over the past 6 months - some of which I believe could've had longer if services had been running normal

Also please don't make presumptions about me - just because I hold a different view from you doesn't mean that I am having BBQs or breaking the rules.

If 10% have had it the vast majority weren't ill for long. The severity seems to have lessened, so we need to know why.

Can you cite the data you are using to make these claims?

How many of the 10% (who didn't die) have fully recovered?

Can you show where it's lessened in severity? Only all of the drs I'm hearing talking about it are saying this is completely untrue.

The problem with the whole let the vulnerable/scared shield and the rest of the world carry on as normal is that the vulnerable to this isnt just some frail over 80 year old. Its often children, adults etc surrounding us. These are people who you wouldnt normally consider vulnerable/ would need to shield, who run essential services etc and are needed in regular jobs for things to run. My family for example has a child who is vulnerable (so presumably that whole set would be shielding), carers for the elderly etc. Just like it was slightly amazing how many people still needed to work as key workers, i think it would be suprising how many people wouldn't be able to participate in a abandoning of the current rules. Out of my 10 nursing collegues in my job at least 4 couldnt to my knowledge so my service would collapse if they could no longer be protected.

Secondly you cant truly isolate groups. People shielding will always need contact with the world eg going shopping, carers etc. My nephew is very vulnerable, and has to rely on the people in contact with him taking precautions. For example his whole family is doing the maximum to protect him, yet there is still contact with professionals etc. They got a taxi the other day for a medical appt and the driver was chatting away about his foreign holiday that he hadnt quarantined from. We cant expect everyone to know when they are having contact with the vulnerable, thus its important that carers etc are reasonably protected rather that interacting in really risky situations. I wouldnt expect minimum wage carers to be following guidance that the rest of the country isnt.

I’m wondering about our long term strategy for this if a vaccine is a way off.

So our goal/aim is not to overwhelm the NHS? It’s far too late for a virus elimination strategy.

Haven’t we just pushed what would have happened in June (had we opened up more to autumn now?). Therefore prolonging the process and causing more economic harm? I’m really just thinking this over rather than arguing this is the case. If we are in a second wave (and I’m not sure we are) wouldn’t that have been better in July/August than autumn and the flu season?

I remember when we were talking about school closures. Back then it seemed ridiculous to me to keep them closed through June and July then open them all at once in September as that would surely cause a surge in cases when we don’t want them- autumn and winter? But that is what we did and that is what is happening.

This is based to the premise that the virus will come in ‘waves’ though and naturally rise and fall. We don’t know that is the case.

Should our aim be to keep a low level ‘bubbling away’ of the virus whilst protecting the care homes and the elderly? We can’t eliminate it and locking down and opening up is going to cause huge economic problems. Just thinking long term now..

I don’t think the hospitality industry can cope with any more closures, the airline industry is decimated. So many jobs lost.
For how long can this go on?

The death rate will rise but we have better treatments now. Supposedly better testing! People are still wfh. I think we have to carry on with minimal closures now. We know so much more about the virus now maybe we can avoid a huge death rate.

Everyone's needs are important. So should the needs of the vulnerable / old / frail in respect of covid trump those whose mental health is suffering? is it OK for someone to commit suicide because they have been unable to get the help they need because of Covid, ditto cancer, heart attacks etc

Can you actually hear yourself? Do you not realise that people can be in more than one of these groups?

A patient with cancer may well not get their treatment if Covid is running rampant because it just won't be safe and there may well not be the staff available to treat them because they too will get ill. Same for people needing heart surgery, brain surgery, transplants etc etc etc.

The elderly and vulnerable are at risk from Covid and likely to be sent back into shielding which will impact their mental health. Maybe they too will feel suicidal because they've been isolated to protect your choice to party????

I don’t understand the “it’s not that bad” crew at all. I feel like people have forgotten what it was like in the early part of this year- we reached a peak of a thousand people dying every day, the NHS stretched to it’s limit, healthcare workers putting their lives on the line. And that was before we knew about the long term effects- there are a lot of people that need rehabbing after covid and it’s not all people that had it really seriously either. I think we’d be quickly overwhelmed if we let it run it’s course, especially in winter.

I think this winter will be tough, but I’m happy to keep distancing and wearing a mask or whatever to help us get through it. Fingers crossed things will look a lot more promising in the spring.

I don't think asking people to give up a few parties is too much

Except it's not "just parties" some (well a lot of), us have had to give up. We were hoping to have a long overdue memorial gathering for my mum (who died at the start of lock down), next Saturday,...we can't now because of the "rule of 6". So yet another sacrifice we've had to make. So while all you posters are saying that it's selfish to meet up in a group of more than 6, spare a thought for those of us for whom that rule is only going to cause more suffering and heartbreak on top of that we have already gone through.

Let it run wild and watch the services slowly stop because there is not enough staff due to sickness... energy, shops, schools, transport and yes the NHS. What do we do then? Nevermind the elderly or vulnerable who would be affected. Or those with long covid all at the same time overwhelming the already knackered and broken NHS?

All because I want to go to gigs, theatre and travel like I normally would? I would rather keep my dad and other vunerable people I know safe for a while longer thank you.

If this had been handled better at the start maybe we wouldn’t be in this mess. There is no right and wrong way forward at this point it’s a disaster in this country. A decent test and trace system? Cooperation with basic measures? We wouldn’t need masks if people actually distanced.... more treatments are being found but it takes time and if services are overwhelmed we can’t treat them all!

We do need a better plan going forward where we can exist in a better way with less restrictions but people in this country are so torn between theories and reality that nothing will work IMO. Funny how lots of people believed in the pandemic when they were being paid to stay home eh?!