To feel irritated by posters saying this on dating threads..

[Grobagsforever]

Poster comes on asking for advice/complaining about someone they are dating e.g the person is flaky, likely married whatever.

There are always a few posts saying something like:

Happily married here so no recent dating experience, if DH and I split up I'd never date

Or

So glad my dating days are over, DP feels the same

Or

Urgh modern dating sounds awful so glad I never did it

Or (my personal pet peeve)

If DH died I'd definitely just stay single.

ANYONE can find themselves single at any age and MOST do choose to date. Not all, but most. The smug married nonsense isn't helpful, it's spiteful. If you've nothing useful to say why bother commenting?

I admit I have a personal sensitivity with this, DH died when I was 33, we'd been together 14 years, I never imagined for a second I'd want anyone else. But then he died and suddenly I had to face up to the choice of being alone for 50 years or woman-ing up and facing the horror of online dating. It was pretty shit at times but now I do have a lovely DP whom my children adore. I APPLAUD all the posters out there struggling through online dating. I APLAUD all those posters choosing to remain single. But can the smug married pls STFU on those threads, unless they have something constructive to say.

Ahhhh that's better.

@user1469976617

Reading this is so refreshing. I've had all of these "helpful" and well-meaning comments. The favourite being, "you'll meet someone when you least expect it".

It's been 11 years and counting

Bit like telling someone struggling to conceive that if only they relax and stop thinking about it it will happen!

@thecatsthecats

Hmm. I may well be guilty of this, but then at least I (smugly) pat myself on the back that I've seen more fucking awful advice given out by serial daters than by smug marrieds.

No, I have never online dated. But as an outside observer, I've seen friends get very stuck into the "zone" of online dating where they seem to stop viewing the men they're interacting with as other human beings, and treat the whole thing as a zero sum game of matching interests and compatibility, with pigeon holed categorisation of whether someone might be a good match depending on how they say "hello" (apparently just "hello" isn't good enough - who knew?).

At the risk of being pelted with rotten tomatoes, horse shit etc, I do find there's a certain vein of singletons who ONLY listen to advice from relationship failures and actively resist advice from people in successful and serious long term relationships. Yes, sure Helen. Listen to twice divorced Sarah who has cheated on two of her last boyfriends. Her experience is surely of much greater value than my faithful thirteen year relationship that you claim to be aiming for

I mean, you wouldn't hire a plumber who's last bathroom spewed shit over the walls? Shitty experience is not experience worth copying!

@thecatsthecats - You've entirely missed the point. Yes, you have a 'successful' 13 year relationship. But a huge part of that is luck, your DH hasn't a) Had his head turned, b) Died. It is not due to your superior relationship skills. Fantastic relationships can fall apart very quickly when life starts throwing curve balls.

I'd suggest you acquire some humility, it's often useful in relationships.

For me, the most annoying comments were from friends telling me to date someone when there was no attraction whatsoever. I was being too picky, apparently.

So I’d always ask if they were attracted to their DP/DH from early on? “Well, yes, of course!”

Ah, but because I’d been single for years, I had to settle for someone where there were no sparks at all, even after a few dates. Thanks 🙄

I remember one smug married woman at a party telling me that I was leaving finding the right man too late, and that I’d miss out on a wonderful life with a soul mate. Hours later, her husband tried to sleaze onto me, the creep. And there she was giving me advice!!

OP, I have been continually been told by my dating friends that my own experience is worth nothing because I don't have direct experience of OLD etc. And indeed that my own circumstances are due to luck.

When I see them gladly take advice from people who have a long history of accepting shitty treatment or treating people shittily themselves, I would say that they lack a certain amount of humility themselves to accept that possibly someone doing things differently might actually a) have a point and b) have achieved it through effort, not luck.

I'm very sorry that your husband died, but I'm not at all lucky in my choice of husband. I picked him very carefully thank you very much, as much for chemistry as for likelihood of having a faithful partnership with him. If you put that down to luck you're robbing yourself of the ability to learn how discern that quality in others.

@thecatsthecats sorry I don’t agree. It is luck that you met your husband and he’s still alive and with you. And frankly it’s also luck that he hasn’t had his head turned or had a mid life crisis, which we’ve all seen happen, often from the types of men we’d never have had down to do that kind of thing.

I’m pleased that you have a nice partner, but that’s down to luck and not some superior personality trait of yours

[quote BooFuckingHoo2]**@thecatsthecats* sorry I don’t agree. It is luck* that you met your husband and he’s still alive and with you. And frankly it’s also luck that he hasn’t had his head turned or had a mid life crisis, which we’ve all seen happen, often from the types of men we’d never have had down to do that kind of thing.

I’m pleased that you have a nice partner, but that’s down to luck and not some superior personality trait of yours [/quote]
people who haven't had their partner die or had an unpleasant mid life shock of the kind described by @BooFuckingHoo2 think there is a set of rules you can follow to stop such things happening (if you are very clever), funnily enough there isn't.

[quote BooFuckingHoo2]**@thecatsthecats* sorry I don’t agree. It is luck* that you met your husband and he’s still alive and with you. And frankly it’s also luck that he hasn’t had his head turned or had a mid life crisis, which we’ve all seen happen, often from the types of men we’d never have had down to do that kind of thing.

I’m pleased that you have a nice partner, but that’s down to luck and not some superior personality trait of yours [/quote]
Let me clarify: I'm not suggesting that my husband will remain nice. Nor am I suggesting he's perfect.

But I have also witnessed countless people go into relationships with men with more red flags than Communist Russia. I've been asked out and have dated and dumped men with similar red flags. I've seen people dole out advice to ignore red flags.

It is not good luck that I have responded to red flags appropriately. It's judgement. It is not bad luck that I've seen people accept bad behaviour for the sake of chemistry or for a misguided sense of romance or that "relationships all take work" (when the "work" in question is trying to stop him texting other women).

Good judgement doesn't make you immune, but it certainly protects you from a lot of bad outcomes. Calling it luck fundamentally ignores the role of judgement in choosing a partner.

If you think I'm smugly aside from understanding, go ahead. But my mum taught me a lot about exercising judgement. Her first marriage was abusive, because she came from an abusive family home and had no judgement to rely on. She rejected my dad at first and proceeded very carefully even though he's lovely.

Oh, and she met him through a hobby when she wasn't trying to date.

@thecatsthecats

OP, I have been continually been told by my dating friends that my own experience is worth nothing because I don't have direct experience of OLD etc. And indeed that my own circumstances are due to luck.

When I see them gladly take advice from people who have a long history of accepting shitty treatment or treating people shittily themselves, I would say that they lack a certain amount of humility themselves to accept that possibly someone doing things differently might actually a) have a point and b) have achieved it through effort, not luck.

I'm very sorry that your husband died, but I'm not at all lucky in my choice of husband. I picked him very carefully thank you very much, as much for chemistry as for likelihood of having a faithful partnership with him. If you put that down to luck you're robbing yourself of the ability to learn how discern that quality in others.

But it's still down to luck that he met you before he met me

I take note of red flags and get rid accordingly. That’s not why I’m single . Anyone who does OLD will know that seemingly perfect men just disappear for no reason - it happens a LOT.

I’ll say it again, you’re lucky that you met someone who ticks your boxes - good for you, but that’s pure timing and luck, not some superior personality trait.

As an aside can people please stop with the “helpful” anecdotes about how XYZ met their husband when they weren’t looking. It’s almost shaming women for daring to admit they want a partner.

I’m happy, confident and have a great life, but I’d still love someone to share it with, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with actively seeking that. I don’t see why we should have to meekly wait for Prince Charming to rock up when we least expect it.

Thecats not one of my married friends has done online dating. Surely there is no point in seeking their advice on finding someone using online dating. They have no experience of it.

To be perfectly honest all bar one of them is not in a marriage I would aspire to. Lazy man child husbands and my friends responsible for household and childcare and full time jobs. The one met her husband in uni.

People are talking about the empty platitudes and there there pats on the heads from their married friends.

If someone who was married and in a great relationship with a great man I would have no issues listening to proper advice from them. The aforementioned shite is not helpful and condescending.

@Grobagsforever Thank you; I'm so sorry for your loss too.

I had a shaky start with dating (in retrospect, I can see that I was pretty vulnerable and too trusting), but I have now met a wonderful man. He's endlessly loving, patient and understanding; it's with his support that I feel I'm finally able to start healing a bit. He's amazing with my son and we have a really happy family life - it's exactly what I wanted. I know how lucky I am to have found this kind of love for a second time.

It’s hard though.

I’m in my mid 30s, married with two kids. I have a friend the same age. She’s been single for years. Really struggles to meet men and is getting more and more down about it. She doesn’t want to do online dating though. Has tried it before and says it just wasn’t for her.

She’s always saying she’s really down about it and tbh I just don’t know what to say to her for the best. I don’t have any advice for her 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yup. Several people I know who said “ha, glad I’m not dating now” once they were married, had a rude awakening when husbands cheated and divorce beckoned....

Even if you have exemplary relationship skills (as some on this thread clearly believe they do) they don't really come into play at the initial stage of OLD. If you meet someone with no previous connection (colleague, friend of friend, etc.) they can do a jolly convinving job of pretending to be reliable and interested if they're so inclined.

This is so true, you have to get past a certain point before relationship skills and your relationship with yourself really come in to their own.

To begin with when it can all end at any second, different skills are required!

I have overcome a lot of my hardwired attachment style problems. I was too focused on whether they liked me to begin with and that put off the healthier candidates and attracted the controlling ones. I get that now. Worked through it. But to begin with, you'd have to be psychic to make judgements on people's attachment styles, emotional maturity and relationship skills on date ONE!! so you give them another date &/or they want to see you again.

I dated a man, I thought he was a nice guy and I ended it because we'd agreed he wouldn't stay over (he only lived around the corner). One night I asked him to go home and he wouldn't and so I ended it. I only saw his true colours when I ended it. He had been really nice and easygoing (in a fake way that fooled me). He nodded and agreed when I said I didn't want him waking up here, and I only knew that that was fake when I realised that he had intended to chip away at me. His nice guy facade only slipped when he couldn't persuade me to change my mind about something he'd already agreed was very sensible.

It can be so very hard to tell how emotionally healthy and how self-aware people are before there has been an issue in the relationship.

@Whatisgoingonhere

For me, the most annoying comments were from friends telling me to date someone when there was no attraction whatsoever. I was being too picky, apparently.

So I’d always ask if they were attracted to their DP/DH from early on? “Well, yes, of course!”

Ah, but because I’d been single for years, I had to settle for someone where there were no sparks at all, even after a few dates. Thanks 🙄

I remember one smug married woman at a party telling me that I was leaving finding the right man too late, and that I’d miss out on a wonderful life with a soul mate. Hours later, her husband tried to sleaze onto me, the creep. And there she was giving me advice!!

oh i can well imagine! I remember telling a small group of women what I was looking for in a man and as well as the usual, attraction, common decency, I added 'charisma' and one of them looked at me like I was nuts. Her own husband is a daysent shshtick but he talks annoyingly slowly and annoyingly quietly. But sure, if I'm not with somebody, I can do exactly what I want, watch what I want, read what I want, so the payoff for NOT BEING FREE DO TO EXACTLY WHAT I WANT has to be something very significant surely? Otherwise, I would rather just be reading or watching Dark on Netflix :D

I am thinking about the “join a walking group” comments on this thread . When I was single in my 30s I did join a walking group and always found it a good place to make friends and meet potential people to date. I don’t think I have ever made the suggestion on here, but if I did it would be well meaning based on my experience. I have made a note not to though.

I applaud you too, GroBagsForever and I'm sorry for your loss.

I wince at the posts that and other posters have described and I think that people sometimes just post lots of trite bollocks for the sake of something to say. It always comes over as insufferably smug and I'm not even sure that it's always well-meant. It sounds sometimes like a reprimand almost.

I'm probably guilty of posting like that myself even though I take care to try not to offend. I'm gong to check myself harder because thinking that I've made somebody feel like shit really isn't my intention and it's not worth the screen it's written on. :(

100 lines for me, "No more cliches and meaningless smug twaddle". I wouldn't have the guts to do OLD, it sounds brutal and actually, I'm quite in awe of woman who put themselves out there, win or lose... they're doing it.

100% agree OP. This is pretty much why I fell out with my childhood friend. She loved being a smug married and when I got divorced and joined online dating for the first time this is all I got. It’s the smug look they get whilst saying things like “oh I couldn’t imagine doing this as I have my Husband” “if my husband died I’d just settle with some nice man from work, I wouldn’t go through all this”

I think there's two separate issues here which are being slightly conflated:

a) the "I'm so glad I'm not single and don't have to do OD" comments. Agree that its smug, judgemental and unhelpful. If you can't say anything constructive etc.
b) but it is reasonable to point out that you have to be able to be comfortable with yourself as a single person before you can think about getting into a relationship. Most women are conditioned to believe that they can't be "whole" unless they are attached to a man and that leaves a lot of them to prioritise this over almost everything else, leading them often to put up with bad behaviour and unsatisfactory relationships.

It''s perfectly reasonable to advise people that they shouldn't really be looking to attach themself to the first man that comes along but without saying in an irritating and self-satisfied way.

I think the problem is that people who have been single for a long time, have heard it all and tried it all before.

• You'll meet someone when you least expect it
• You need to love yourself first
• Who needs a man?
• Take up cycling/Tai Kwondo/Swimming/Free fall diving/swimming with great whites...
• Wish I was single, never get a moment's peace. Aren't you lucky!
• Joylessly travel around the world solo because that's what I'd do if I was single!

It's a bit of a catch 22 because no matter what you say, it doesn't really help.

But the smug married I know have never had any length ok f time being single. They met their husbands young usually with the comfortable confines of a university or work group so any advice of being with yourself first and happy alone is hollow advice indeed. They've never done it so why pass on the wisdom that with experience makes it a smug cliche .

I am happy single now after years of painful widowhood and the experience of being an attractive intelligent woman who only met utter wankers on OLD.

[quote Grobagsforever]@user1469976617 Quite. No one says 'you'll find a job when you least expect it' they tell you to apply for jobs!!!
[/quote]

Fucking spot on!!!!

5 years single and still Tindering! I loathe it!

Someone will come along when you least expect it! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

So sorry for your loss It doesn't compare but I am recently divorced and tentatively dating. It's bloody hard! The last time I was single I was a teenager and now seem to be surrounded by smug married people or people scared that divorce is a disease and they might catch it