Teachers should cut the kids a little slack?

[Vinniepolis]

DD9 has been away from school for 6 months and has been pretty miserable about it. She was soooo happy to go back this week. In English today, she didn’t quite understand what her (new) teacher had asked them to do so asked her to explain. “You obviously weren’t listening!” came the reply. In Maths, she didn’t finish the task in time because she realised she had made a mistake and started over. More words from the teacher about not paying attention, and lots of tears when she got home. She hates being in trouble at school. Maybe she wasn’t paying attention 100%, but AIBU to expect the teacher might cut them a bit of slack at the end of their first week back after 6 months away?

I think the comment about Maths was probably fair enough but to tell a child off because they don't understand is mean. So I would mention that but more in a "this is what my daughter thought and felt" rather than 'how dare you upset my daughter'.
But do mention it because at the moment your daughter is probably scared to ask for help which isn't good.
Also if the teacher is new she probably doesn't realise that your daughter is normally well behaved.
I do agree teachers are probably scared and under pressure but it's not really fair to take it out on the children

I do worry about some of these posters refusing to ever accept a child's version of events. Is it always the adult whose version is correct? What about where a child discloses abuse going on at home? Do you always believe the parent when they say that the child was just making it up?

I'm not saying that children don't dramatise things that happen at school. I have 2 DDs of 11 and 8 and I know they exaggerate sometimes. But I can mostly tell when what they're telling me is true.

Yes there are parents who believe that their DC can do no wrong, but I think the majority of us are aware that this isn't the case, as we see the behaviour at home as well.

Thankfully, my DDs behave much better than at school than at home, so this isn't a problem that I've faced.

That worries me too mittens, and the fact that a lot seem to imply that because the child must have been doing something “bad”, then they “deserved” whatever befell them next.

It's the teachers job to make sure your child understands

And that is only possible with the cooperation of the child! I used to tell my classes that this was a joint venture, I taught and they tried to learn, they won't 'catch' the work by being in the room, it's not like measles! If more than one teacher is commenting on inattention then just maybe the fault lies closer to home.

@CrowBones

Our primary is running a "gentle" curriculum for the first two weeks without much in the way of real learning, to give them a chance to get used to being back in the school routine. It's a big change for them. No, YANBU.

So is ours. Several of the children in my Y4 class have asked "When are we going to start doing proper work?"

When you do return to "proper" work, would you, in the first couple of weeks, cut them some slack if their concentration and/or listening skills were a little rusty given the long period of absence from formal schooling?

Mittens030869
I don't disagree with you.

However experience in schools has shown me that discussions surrounding pupil behaviour can be muddied by two things a lot of the time.

Firstly, perception and interpretation where the version that is told to parent is paraphrased in the way the child interprets the event rather than how it actually happened. In these situations the child isn't deliberately lying or trying to get out of trouble, but what goes home isn't totally accurate.For example, a usually well-behaved child daydreams and isn't paying attention, the teacher intervenes to get their attention and the child quickly zones out again because they're watching what another class are doing outside in PE. Child doesn't know what to do and gets stuck. The teacher correctly points out that's because instead of paying attention when they'd already been reminded, they chose to watch another class do PE. The teacher doesn't tell the child off, but isn't wrong to point out that the reason the child doesn't know what they're doing is because they didn't pay attention, but a more sensitive child who isn't used to be in trouble might catastrophise that situation and go home upset. What home hear is "Mrs Blogs told me off when I asked for help because I didn't know what I was doing".

Secondly, where a child knows they've not behaved well and they give either a fully inaccurate account of events, or they give a partial account of events, or they deliberately omit or spin events to take the heat off themselves. Usually doing this means that the version that goes home is one that places the student as a victim of a mean, bullying teacher.
For example, teacher tells the class to complete the work in silence and if you need help you need to raise your hand. Student ignores this instruction and starts turning to talk to other students. The teacher warns them and reminds them the instruction is to work in silence and raise their hand if they need help. The student continues to ignore the instruction so the teacher puts a sanction in place. At this point the student claims "I was only asking for help... You can't give me a detention for trying to do my work!". This version goes home and parent is furious that their child has been wrongly sanctioned, their child has been given detention for only asking for help, teachers are bullies who should help children not watch them struggle, they don't give consent to the detention (the usual frothy Mumsnet post )

Being open to the fact that both those two situations exist when dealing with behaviour issues doesn't mean refusing to believe a child could ever be right. It just means that when it comes to classroom behaviour, there's room for shades of grey.

@LolaSmiles

I don't disagree with you at all. I face this when my DDs argue, or describe an incident at school.

My concern is when posters make the assumption that the teacher must always be in the right and the parent must think the child can do no wrong.

Most parents I know don't have this attitude, as they know their child isn't an angel all the time! And the vast majority don't complain all the time; I've never complained about any of my DDs' teachers and wouldn't unless my DH and I were both convinced that it really was justified.

My real concern is that if an abused child feels that they won't be believed, they won't be believed if they disclose it to an adult.

Because that was me as a child.

That was supposed to say:

My real concern is that if an abused child doesn't have confidence that adults will believe what they say, then they won't disclose what other things are going on in their lives.

Mittens030869
Yes the default of 'adult = right / child=wrong' is a worrying view to have.

I'd say most parents are really reasonable and supportive, but the loud minority vary school to school. Sometimes SLT don't help because when situations like the second one happen, they throw their staff under the bus to appease the unreasonable parents and then the child learns they can do what they like. At one school a parent tried to blame me for their child assaulting me! In a good school the numbers in that camp are lower though.

@CrowBones

When you do return to "proper" work, would you, in the first couple of weeks, cut them some slack if their concentration and/or listening skills were a little rusty given the long period of absence from formal schooling?

Absolutely!

I do worry about some of these posters refusing to ever accept a child's version of events. Is it always the adult whose version is correct?

I don't think anyone has said the child is incorrect. They've said to check with the adult in the room to give context and double check the child's version. In the case of child abuse the child is obviously believed and an investigation takes place.

I didn’t say that snapping and sarcasm is the answer but I do know that asking a pupil to stop swinging on their chair etc doesn’t always mean that they do.

This!!

Asking politely more than about 5 times becomes bloody irritating. Children need to know there are consequences and not listening results in a stern word.

And snapping at them is a way to achieve that?

Who said anything about snapping?

When I get to about time 6/7 of asking I probably sound snappy. Because I'm fed up with my time/the classes time being wasted. There's only so many times you can say "Jimmy I need you to face this way and listen".

@poloneckknickers

Fabulous, all I would hope for! Thanks

@Hercwasonaroll

Who said anything about snapping?

When I get to about time 6/7 of asking I probably sound snappy. Because I'm fed up with my time/the classes time being wasted. There's only so many times you can say "Jimmy I need you to face this way and listen".

The op!

I do think teachers should be making allowances for the children who haven't been there since March.

That said, having a 9yo myself, I would find it a bit tiresome if my DD came home crying because a teacher told her to pay attention.

If it's out of character for her and is down to having been away for so long, then fair enough. If however she was like this pre-covid then she needs to toughen up.

I can't find any reference to snapping in the OP or any of their subsequent posts.

Haven't read the full thread but secondary teacher here and YANBU. I am cutting my kids a lot of slack right now. Alot of my students come from chaotic homes and basic rules, routines and boundaries are a shock to their system in normal times, let alone after 5 months away. I'm going really easy on them and building a good relationship and trust back up with them. There's no point going in all guns blazing. If a childs basic emotional needs aren't being met, they aren't going to learn.

If you have 30 + children in a class you haven't got the time to give them individual explanations because they haven't listened. By Y5 they know this. Usually there are opportunities during the explanation to indicate if you dobt understand, like thumbs up or down.

I think it is very snappy to tell a child they should have been listening when they ask for help.

I think it is very snappy to tell a child they should have been listening when they ask for help.

And as plenty of posters have explained, that might not be the whole story. Perhaps the dd was not listening. Perhaps the teacher had reminded her a couple of times before.

Like the child who says "I got a detention for asking for a pen". No, you got a detention for talking for the 5th time when you shouldn't have been.

Maybe it isn’t, but I’m responding to the info in the OP and not projecting my own beliefs onto it

@notwhattheydo

I think it is very snappy to tell a child they should have been listening when they ask for help.

As I said up-thread, this message can be delivered in many different ways. The vast majority of them would be perfectly acceptable: "You must listen when I'm explaining in the future. Now, what help do you need?" "You will find this easier in the future if you give me your full focus when I'm speaking to you." "I will help you but you must also help yourself by concentrating on what is being said during the input."

You have assumed that the message was given in a snappy manner with the intention to upset simply because the child became upset. There's an element of confirmation bias there and is based purely on what you think/believe/feel happened in a situation that you were no involved in.

I mean... if we, as teachers, don't have the basic expectation (and so reinforce) that children will listen and show concentration when we speak what's the point of them even being there? It's not a social club. They are there to learn and focusing on learning is a pretty fundamental aspect of that process.

@notwhattheydo

Maybe it isn’t, but I’m responding to the info in the OP and not projecting my own beliefs onto it

Actually, that's exactly what you've done.