To ask if there's something I'm missing about the allegedly "controversial" Diversity performance

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

Diversity performed on Britain's Got Talent, a performance which incorporated a message about BLM. Their performance, as usual, was incredible and sent out some great messages. The video is below.

It's had 10,000 complaints. Why?! am I missing something? Did someone's nipple pop out or something? What is the basis of people's complaints? The only reason I can think is that some people (probably because they're part of the problem) don't like it when others point out that there's racism in the world? Boo hoo to them

I am actually aghast that “you’re looking down on cleaners” is what you took from that post, GOYHH. The point is not that there is anything “wrong” with being a cleaner or a secretary, the point is that assumptions are made about you based on your race

@PandaBearBear, that was a very powerful post! thank you.

I am white, middle class, middle aged woman with all the advantages that goes with that status, I will admit that over the years I have had to check myself over preconceived ideas and predjudice and a voice like yours should be heard!

@PandaBearBear, thank you for your bravery. @GetOffYourHighHorse, unbelievable that you took "she looks down on cleaners" from that powerful post. You have nothing to contribute to this discussion.

@GetOffYourHighHorse are you being wilfully obtuse. No there is nothing wrong with being a cleaner, there is everything wrong with assuming someone is the cleaner because they are black.
Similar thing happened to Dawn Butler when first elected. She entered a lift and was told that the cleaners weren’t to use those lifts. Bet that never happened to Ann Widdecombe.

Glad to see BGT has finally chucked it's hat in the ring! Better late thn never.

willfully obtuse totally.

Vogue editor Edward Enninful OBE this July, refused entrance to his own bloody offices by a covering security guard who just assumed he couldn't really be the editor and told him to go to the loading bay.
Anyone really manipulative enough to claim his unhappiness at the incident is because he looks down on delivery drivers?

Many years ago, I went with a group of friends to a black tie do. One of my friends is of BAME heritage. Two men assumed he was the cloakroom attendant and later a woman assumed he was a waiter.

No such assumptions were made about the rest of us in the group, who were all white. I can’t and won’t try to speak for how it affected him, but it was a real eye opener for me, as I had never seen anything like it before.

You can’t help it if you are born with privilege, but you can try to be the best ally and advocate for change that you can bloody well be.

(As an aside, he was a qualified silver service waiter in his younger years, so he certainly didn’t “look down on waiters”!).

You can’t help it if you are born with privilege, but you can try to be the best ally and advocate for change that you can bloody well be.

Do you reckon you're managing that @GetOffYourHighHorse? Really?

Have a read back over your posts on this thread, and hang your head in shame.

Then try to change.

'hang your head in shame. Then try to change.'

Why would I 'hang my head in shame'?! I stand by everything I've said.

A pp won't 'engage with me', which means they conveniently won't respond to my comments abount Floyd and Timpa. The police involved in George Floyd's murder were charged, the charges against the police officers involved in Tony Timpa's death, which was horrific and a very similar situation were dropped. Giving one example that it is police brutality in the US that is the problem, not everything is because of racism.

'but you can try to be the best ally and advocate for change that you can bloody well be'

I hope peope of all ethnicities become more inclusive and tolerant. Sadly the stuff evident online the 'gammon' and 'Karen' slurs, the constant patronising about 'white privilege' seems to have the soul aim of inciting more division.

Poor Calvin Robinson, mocked for his own opinions and being called racist names by other black people. Why?, why would they not challenge his opinion intelligently rather than call him a c**n? It's just shocking.

There is an ongoing case against Tony Timpa’s killers. He was a man who was mentally ill and vulnerable, what happened to him was disgusting, but this is not the subject in hand. You know that thigh, don’t you. You’re just trying to continue to derail.

the constant patronising about 'white privilege' seems to have the soul aim of inciting more division.

Denying white privilege marks you down as an out-and-out racist.

When I started as a lawyer I signed my name without giving my gender - just initials to avoid sexism - we had only just got the Sex Discrimination Act but the first letter I did the partner told me to add Mrs so that was the end of that. I used to do all kinds of things so as not to be taken for a secretary including clothing, accent, all sorts. I am sure it is similar for some BAME people. I don't really like that term as medicine and law are full of very successful Indian and Chinese professionals who tend to do better at school than whites and lumping everyone together as under privileged because they are "BAME" makes analysis harder.

I don't even like the word privilege. I prefer advantaged. We all have all kinds of advantages and disadvantages.

'Denying white privilege marks you down as an out-and-out racist.'

No you've misunderstood, again. I dont deny it at all. It is the way it is now thrown around constantly. Comments are dismissed with 'that's your white privilege'. It is used as an insult to belittle people and shut down debate.

Look at how much bile I've had chucked at me on this thread because I think differently to you.

Look at how much bile I've had chucked at me on this thread because I think differently to you
You misunderstand.

Nobody is chucking bile for having different opinions.

People are strongly challenging views that are highly prejudiced and racist.

Then again, people who are prone to racism are often quick to claim that they're attacked for 'just having an opinion'.

I hope peope of all ethnicities become more inclusive and tolerant. Sadly the stuff evident online the 'gammon' and 'Karen' slurs, the constant patronising about 'white privilege' seems to have the soul aim of inciting more division

So all lives matter then, @GetOffYourHighHorse

We see you.

You can think what you want, I'd rather you didn't harbour these obvious racist feelings, but no-one can force you to change them.

What you don't have is an inalienable right not to be called out on them. Free speech works both ways (and also, fwiw, extends to black dance troupes).

Look at how much bile I've had chucked at me on this thread because I think differently to you.

That's not why.

You are entitled to think whatever you like.

Other people are entitled to judge you on those thoughts.

If people are judging you harshly, it’s probably time for a rethink.

^When I started as a lawyer I signed my name without giving my gender - just initials to avoid sexism - we had only just got the Sex Discrimination Act but the first letter I did the partner told me to add Mrs so that was the end of that. I used to do all kinds of things so as not to be taken for a secretary including clothing, accent, all sorts. I am sure it is similar for some BAME people. I don't really like that term as medicine and law are full of very successful Indian and Chinese professionals who tend to do better at school than whites and lumping everyone together as under privileged because they are "BAME" makes analysis harder.

I don't even like the word privilege. I prefer advantaged. We all have all kinds of advantages and disadvantages.^

I agree with a lot of this. All I will say on the BAME point is that sometimes we need a fairly blunt tool for explaining basic concepts for the sake of the wilfully obtuse like @GetOffYourHighHorse. Some of the stats around black African and Caribbean kids' achievement are hard to fathom (as a group they do well up to A level, go to university in large numbers but often tank when they get there). A skilled racist shit-stirrer (and thankfully we only have the common-or-garden type on this thread) could have a field day with that.

Also, as a matter of ordinary English, I don't think 'privilege' is helpful. Obviously most people would not naturally say that a disabled economically-disadvantaged white man living on a council estate was 'privileged' but in the technical sense he is in some ways. I do agree that to refer to him as having advantages over others is less likely to cause a linguistic blockage when discussing these issues in non-academic contexts (and of course its not the academics we need to win over, it's the hard-of-thinking dipshits who get into a wilful tizz over expressions like 'white privilege' or 'male privilege')

'what happened to him was disgusting, but this is not the subject in hand. You know that thigh, don’t you. You’re just trying to continue to derail.'

The 'subject in hand', 'Derail?! A white man died in very similar circumstances to George Floyd but the charges were dropped. Floyd's murderers were charged. Now you may call that a 'derail' but others may say it is a relevant example of US police brutality and not evidence of anyone being treated differently because of their ethnicity.

You keep saying you 'see' people Bear, not sure if you're trying to intimidate me, but it won't work. And stop tagging me fgs.

@GetOffYourHighHorse. I’m sorry, you could always start a thread about Tony Timpa.
And yes, derail is the right term.

'And yes, derail is the right term.'

Or, a similar relevant situation and tragic death at the hands of the US police but it unfortunately doesn't fit your agenda. Got it 👍.

GetOffYourHighHorse, I'm saying that I and everyone else on this thread with half a brain can see that you are trying to stoke racial tensions, despite your protestations to the contrary.

'I'm saying that I and everyone else on this thread with half a brain can see that you are trying to stoke racial tensions'

Oh please. Now you're quoting my Calvin Robinson quote.

Don't put yourself down, I'm sure you have more than half a brain. I'm not racist, nor are my family or friends. Diversity, equality and inclusion are of course important. Saying I don't like Diversity (the dancers)and their dance on a talent show depicting a violent act and don't believe calling white people 'gammon' is ok doesn't make someone racist.

Sensitive white snowflakes is why

Oooh racist

The statement I’m not racist nor are my family and friends is sadly not supported by your posts on this thread.

Just sharing this