To ask if there's something I'm missing about the allegedly "controversial" Diversity performance

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

Diversity performed on Britain's Got Talent, a performance which incorporated a message about BLM. Their performance, as usual, was incredible and sent out some great messages. The video is below.

It's had 10,000 complaints. Why?! am I missing something? Did someone's nipple pop out or something? What is the basis of people's complaints? The only reason I can think is that some people (probably because they're part of the problem) don't like it when others point out that there's racism in the world? Boo hoo to them

You're missing the central point of systemic racism. Systemic racism is in the system.

Them going to a good school and having a privileged background doesn't mean they opt out of systemic racism, just like women can't opt out of systemic sexism based on where we're born.

What you're doing is the equivalent of saying 'but we've had two female prime ministers so that's hardly a sign there's systemic sexism".

Or to show some of the other illogical arguments from this thread:
'Privileged women don't experience sexism because they have money... Women from affluent backgrounds who speak up about the gender pay gap should get back in their box and stop virtue signalling... I highly doubt these women who are raising awareness about the need for equality of the decides and who are campaigning about sexism are actually doing anything to help... They're probably too busy attention seeking to be volunteering in their community to sort the issue of girls lacking aspiration... It's all well and good women talking about sexism and raising awareness of maternity discrimination, but what about all the men who don't get paternity leave, what about the men in low paid jobs? As it happens, I think that all parents matter, so there's no need to be focusing on maternity discrimination... I'm just saying that it's not the time or the place for a group of women to talk about issues affecting women... Some of us don't want our teatime viewing to be hijacked by women talking about women's rights... Why can't women's rights be spoken about by women without a platform, in private where the rest of us don't have to feel uncomfortable... ... What do you mean you think I'm being sexist? I was only having an opinion about a dance! ... Don't call me out on sexist views, I'm only trying to make sure that the REAL victims of sexism get the support they need'.

I am in tears reading this thread, and I've had to stop.

I am actually exhausted from having to justify my familys right and need to be respected as human beings and treated fairly. For us to feel like we are not inconveniencing and taking up white people's space just by fucking existing.

Thousands and thousands of complaints over a group of black men trying to show people the pain that we go through. And the response is disgust. Because it interrupted your entertainment.

I'm so tired.

@PandaBearBear

I am in tears reading this thread, and I've had to stop.

I am actually exhausted from having to justify my familys right and need to be respected as human beings and treated fairly. For us to feel like we are not inconveniencing and taking up white people's space just by fucking existing.

Thousands and thousands of complaints over a group of black men trying to show people the pain that we go through. And the response is disgust. Because it interrupted your entertainment.

I'm so tired.

I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this, your entire life.

I’m sorry PandaBearBear I hope others feel ashamed when they read your post

I doubt all will but maybe some will go away and have a think

There’s some interesting dynamics at play on this thread, which I have seen reflected across other posts on MN, whereby any discussions on racism will have posters who are very keen to let everyone know just how not racist they are and these posters will dismiss any idea or opinion that doesn’t 100% align with theirs because they must be right because they are so very not racist and when a black poster comes along to tell then that actually you are making me a bit uncomfortable with your assumptions here, and my experiences aren’t quite like you are suggesting- they are immediately jumped on and told they don’t understand/don’t know better/must be racist themselves and then another black poster will come along and say they are fed up/tired of facing racism and the OP will immediately fall to their knees and kiss the feet of these black posters (who fit quite nicely into their assumptions) because the poster is so very not racist and they don’t understand how people could judge other people because of the colour of their skin quite forgetting that they so very easily dismiss the opinions of black posters who dare to disagree with them.

It’s smacks of wanting “deserving oppressed black people” very like the “deserving poor” which allow posters to cast themselves in the role of ‘saviour’.

What’s interesting, cats is that you’re trying to put people on the defensive for challenging racism. Attack the people and not their arguments.

PandaBearBear if it's any consolation they are a very vocal minority. Looking at the peformance on the Britain's Got Talent YouTube Channel, it seems like three quarters of viewers really liked it (60k likes). Personally I think if it really rattled the racists enough to complain, it must have done it's job conveying it's message.

Quote from Cesar A. Cruz, the Mexican poet and human rights activist: “Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."

It resonated with me and many, many others who have suffered racism since a very young age in the UK. The haters don't want a level playing field as deep down they know they are favoured in the system and want it to remain that way. The majority are with you particularly the young. Change IS coming despite the haters not wanting a fairer society.

noblegiraffe

You keep telling me what your interpretation of what I’m saying on this thread is.

I don’t need to you reinterpret my posts for me, for one you keep willfully misinterpreting what I’m saying in order to prove how not racist you are.

Why not ask my why I’ve said the things I’ve said instead of trying to reinterpret it?

You sure seem determined to take this topic away from dance by Diversity, and the racism that has been evidenced on this thread, cats.

What an absolute disgrace people think there's a 'time and place' for racism to be called out.

These are the same people that mutter 'I'm not racist but...'

Wtf would a dance about a real life event get you upset? Isn't entertainment supposed to be about expressing yourself?

It is beyond ridiculous anyone would find it offensive.

Imagine if they had done a dance about the war for Remembrance Day and depicted a foreign soldier killing a Brit - do you think there would have been 20,000 complaints then? Just think about that.

Disgraceful. It makes me really dislike a lot about this country.

Too many over-polite, in disguise racists.

That’s an interesting interpretation noblegiraffe

Because I’ve discussed racism quite a bit on this thread. I talked earlier on about how Diversity’s performance will appeal to people who are already not racist, but won’t appeal to people who don’t really understand racism. (And conceded that Diversity don’t exist to educate people about racism)

I also talked briefly about BLM and why it doesn’t speak for me.

Why are you so determined to find fault with what I’m posting ?

Why are you so determined to find fault with what I’m posting?

Because it’s bollocks, cats. People desperate to prove how non-racist they are? What? To whom? This is an anonymous Internet forum, literally who is there to impress? That argument might work on twitter or Facebook where people use real identities and are followed by people they know. Here it’s just nonsense and doesn’t follow the dynamic at all.

But hey, maybe it’ll put people off challenging racism if they think they might have their motives questioned instead of their arguments.

You know what @CatsFantastic, I am really quite happy being not racist, although I don’t quite fit your demographic.
I don’t give a flying fuck about your interpretation of the thread, So what if White people want to clearly demonstrate they’re not racist, of more did then there wouldn’t be quite so much of a problem. Maybe it’s a bandwagon you should hop on, it would help an awful lot of people.

@CatsFantastic

There’s some interesting dynamics at play on this thread, which I have seen reflected across other posts on MN, whereby any discussions on racism will have posters who are very keen to let everyone know just how not racist they are and these posters will dismiss any idea or opinion that doesn’t 100% align with theirs because they must be right because they are so very not racist and when a black poster comes along to tell then that actually you are making me a bit uncomfortable with your assumptions here, and my experiences aren’t quite like you are suggesting- they are immediately jumped on and told they don’t understand/don’t know better/must be racist themselves and then another black poster will come along and say they are fed up/tired of facing racism and the OP will immediately fall to their knees and kiss the feet of these black posters (who fit quite nicely into their assumptions) because the poster is so very not racist and they don’t understand how people could judge other people because of the colour of their skin quite forgetting that they so very easily dismiss the opinions of black posters who dare to disagree with them.

It’s smacks of wanting “deserving oppressed black people” very like the “deserving poor” which allow posters to cast themselves in the role of ‘saviour’.

Interesting dismissive attitude about creating an issue that avoids the reality problem. The problem is not wokeness ( whatever that is) or virtual signalling ( whatever that means). The problem is racism. Overt, hurtful, state sanctioned racism. That’s what needs to be central to any conversation.

It’s not as simple as racist or not. We all have conscious and unconscious bias and all come with different life experiences and clearly different learning. I’m fully aware I judge certain things negatively and stereotype certain cohorts - people wearing anything bearing the St George’s Flag raise my ‘avoid’ alerts. People smoking encourage me to put a distance between us. What I don’t do is see one life as of less value than another. All lives are of equal value and deserve the same respect and opportunities.
It’s not ‘how non racist am I’, but a very untrendy, unwoke and basic Christianity. All people are created equal. Nothing more.

There’s some interesting dynamics at play on this thread, which I have seen reflected across other posts on MN, whereby any discussions on racism will have posters who are very keen to let everyone know just how not racist they are and these posters will dismiss any idea or opinion that doesn’t 100% align with theirs because they must be right because they are so very not racist and when a black poster comes along to tell then that actually you are making me a bit uncomfortable with your assumptions here, and my experiences aren’t quite like you are suggesting- they are immediately jumped on and told they don’t understand/don’t know better/must be racist themselves and then another black poster will come along and say they are fed up/tired of facing racism and the OP will immediately fall to their knees and kiss the feet of these black posters (who fit quite nicely into their assumptions) because the poster is so very not racist and they don’t understand how people could judge other people because of the colour of their skin quite forgetting that they so very easily dismiss the opinions of black posters who dare to disagree with them.

Eh? No-one on this thread or website has a clue who I am. I could be Tommy Robinson on a wind-up for all you know.

I can’t believe anyone would complain about that performance.
These are probably the same people who watch porn, use prostituted women, find lap dancing clubs acceptable and watch racist comedians.

They probably moan about women in dramas in roles other than wife/girlfriend/mother.

It was amazing and gave me goosebumps. For anyone saying it wasn’t the right platform - just 🙄.

Quote from Cesar A. Cruz, the Mexican poet and human rights activist: “Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."
I've never heard this before. I like it.

Gilead
You're right. I don't see what's so wrong about people challenging racism.

What I find silly is that the go to responses of those wanting to spout racism in life seem to be along the lines of 'you're all trying to censor me / you can't say anything these days without being called racist / it's political correctness gone mad / you can't even express an opinion these days / you know some people can't stand anyone having an opinion that's different to them'.

What they selectively ignore is that most people have no issues with a range of opinions and most people have no issue with robust debate, but part of that is that others can, and will challenge them.

That's the problem with fringe views/more extreme views at the moment. With the racists (be it the EDL lout types or the 'oh I'm not racist but...' types) they tend to think that having their racism challenged equals nobody being allowed an opinion. With the fragile identity politics lot on the left, they tend to think that no platforming is the answer to everything. Both groups aren't interested in debate because they're usually wrapped up in being the victim, arguing about who is the most oppressed, and both groups are awful with whataboutery.

@LolaSmiles, absolutely. It’s all diversionary tactics, paragraphs built solely from logical fallacies designed to shut down debate whilst being dressed up to look like debate.

Gilead
It is, and what's really absurd is the most recent argument that those making evidently racist objections are the real defenders of BAME people because they're the one who are trying to help they REAL victims of bigotry.

Calvin Robinson, like Dominique Samuels, is black but doesn't sign up to the BLM ideology. He states everyone in the UK has an equal opportunity to succeed, he doesn't support BLM as it is 'stoking racial tension when none existed to start with'.

Calvin Robinson of course doesn't represent all black people but neither does Derek Chauvin represent all police officers.

Yes racism exists but to get back to the op, Diversity doing a dance including a scene representing a man's murder in the US was virtue signalling and not constructive. I believe they could use their privilige and platform in a more useful and meaningful way. That doesn't mean it's their 'responsibility' to do so, but neither is it their 'responsibility' to dance about US policing on a UK talent show.

Kofi Josephs, a black model and athlete says on Twitter Calvin Robinson's "afro doesn't hide his co*n chip". Really?? Ironically demonstrating their own disgusting racism.

In what way do you feel that demonstrating the racism of others adds to the discussion? Is it just to shore up your own (invalid) argument?
It wasn’t virtue signalling, it was a plea for equality and equity. Things that are currently beyond the reach of most black people.

Calvin Robinson stood as an MP for the Brexit Party so I'm not entirely confident in his ability to spot anybody stoking racial tensions.

'Calvin Robinson stood as an MP for the Brexit Party so I'm not entirely confident in his ability to spot anybody stoking racial tensions.'

Oh. Despite been black, his opinions on racial tensions and BLM are irrelevant because you don't agree with his politics?! Fascinating.