To ask what you think about a British government openly declaring that it will break international law?

[Pepperwort]

This is regarding Johnson’s government’s new stated dislike of the Withdrawal agreement, which Johnson turfed May out over, negotiated, and signed.

For those not watching the news (living under rocks as it’s the top headline), the new Internal Market Bill they are presenting has a clause to the effect that any international law or court can be ignored at will. There are severe repercussions for the GFA and NI. The government have openly confirmed they will break the Withdrawal Agreement and any international law they don’t like. The EU has of course objected, and Gove has confirmed the government does not care. Not only could this scupper talks with the EU, but with the US, who have always been broadly supportive of Northern Ireland. It damages our international reputation in general and risks us being seen as a rogue state. This is beyond political posturing, just as it is beyond the old remain/ leave arguments, because we have already left. A former Tory leader and lord has spoken against it.

For voting, let’s say it’s aimed at the government. So YABU - Britain should not start its independent existence as a sovereign state by breaking laws. YANBU - go ahead, international laws are there for the breaking.

OchonAgusOchonO

You were overdramatising with;
"Breaking an international agreement is generally something done by depots, dictatorships and other disreputable governments."

"17 December 2012 (Brussels)–The European Commission’s proposed regulation on ship recycling is illegal, according to two independent legal experts whose legal opinions were publicly released today. The NGO Shipbreaking Platform, a global coalition of environmental, human rights and labour rights organisations, prompted two legal analyses, one by the Center for International Environmental Law (CIEL) and the other by Dr. Ludwig Krämer, the former chief counsel to the European Commission. Both reports conclude that the European Commission has greatly overstepped its authority by attempting to unilaterally depart from its international legal obligations under the Basel Convention.The NGO Platform has also written a letter to the European Council asking that their legal analysis be released in the public interest. "

www.ciel.org/news/ec-breaches-international-law-on-ship-recycling-file-independent-lawyers-say/

What is the worst that can happen if we break this treaty?
Apart from not getting a good deal with the USA or Europe.

You were overdramatising with; "Breaking an international agreement is generally something done by depots, dictatorships and other disreputable governments."

Not really. Massive difference between the examples you're giving (well done on your ability to use google) and what the UK government is doing.

Oh, and maybe have a look at the legislation you're referring to before simply cutting and pasting an opinion. Although as you don't seem to read what you cut and paste, it's probably a bit much to expect you to read beyond that and actually determine whether it is accurate or not.

@chomalungma

What is the worst that can happen if we break this treaty? Apart from not getting a good deal with the USA or Europe.

If we don't get a good deal with the EU or the US we're pretty fucked to be honest.

What is the worst that can happen if we break this treaty?

The matter will probably end up in the Supreme Court first and the lawyers can thrash it out - then we can all take a more informed view of the government's thinking.

Whataboutery regarding Canada and drug laws is entirely irrelevant to the issues being discussed here.

I am utterly fed up with seeing @clavinova's ridiculous dead-cat posts.

Please don't let this bad-faith cut-and-paste merchant derail this thread like s/he does all the others.

Other countries may decide to break their treaties with the UK (Spain, China etc).

It's not a question of not getting a good deal. It's not getting any deal.

The EU will make no concessions to the UK to ease the exit. So no equivalence provisions for financial services, for example.

Do you really have to ask?!

My take is that it's fine if we then give up policing the rest of the world then as we won't have a leg to stand on concerning breaking international laws including the recent furore about Hong Kong.

Please don't let this bad-faith cut-and-paste merchant derail this thread like s/he does all the others.

I have given my opinion that I think the matter is likely to end up in the Supreme Court - so there's no point quoting overly dramatic headlines from the media.

I guess the Canada defence is the current tactic being encouraged by Cummings.

I used google.

It's all so depressing.

Clavinova how low will Johnson have to go before you give up your defense of him? I mean, there's doubling down and then there's you - whole other level.

@Howallergic

Do you really think that China, the US, Canada, EU etc. are going to refuse to do a trade deal because.... NI? Nobody cares. Bigger fish to fry/catch etc.

Since Ireland is part of the EU, yes. They have as much a say as Germany/France/Spain et cetera,

What is the worst that can happen if we break this treaty

Not enough food to go round. NOT overdramatising. And indeed Barnier (who needs to look at his inflated ego too - am generally fed up with male politicians on both sides putting egos ahead of the good of the people) has threatend to cut off UK food exports to the EU. OK they don't rely on our food but it will still be an inconvenience. The other way round - well it will be a bit more than an inconvenience. Also, Barnier seems to forget all the EU citizens living in the UK including all the British citizens who also have EU citizenship. I suppose he thinks they should all just move.

Can we get Nicola and Angela in a room - we'll have this all sorted in a morning.

Barnier and Boris - hmmm. Chalk and cheese.

It's not a question of not getting a good deal. It's not getting any deal.

The fact that we secured a free trade agreement with Japan this morning obviously gives up some leverage with the EU as well;

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-international-trade

gives us not up

At the age of 56, l have NEVER known a government so low and self serving as this. They are deceitful, treacherous and totally don’t care about u turns or any form of standards.

Thatcher was evil, and despised by many, especially in the north including myself. But even she wasn’t as bad as this. You knew where you stood. She was shit and treated us like shit. But at least you knew.

A trade deal that by the govt's own analysis will deliver a £1.5 billion boost to the economy?

Just over 1% of the predicted cost of Johnson's Operation Moonshot then?

Wowzers. Problem solved, I guess

And indeed Barnier (who needs to look at his inflated ego too - am generally fed up with male politicians on both sides putting egos ahead of the good of the people) has threatend to cut off UK food exports to the EU

Actually he didn't. It wasn't a threat. He pointed out that a no deal could have consequences for the food export. Pointing out a problem isn't a threat.

Same as pointing out that breaking the GFA could mean problems in NI. That doesn't mean that tge EU is sending tanks, it is pointing out that that can be a consequence. (And basically implying that the UK shouldn't want that).

CeaseAndDesist
Sometimes I think you want the UK to fail to prove a point.

@Clavinova

CeaseAndDesist Sometimes I think you want the UK to fail to prove a point.

I think the UK is failing perfectly well without any assistance from me.

But thanks for the little trip down memory lane. I've not heard a Brexshitter come out with 'waaaaaah you just don't BELIEEEEEEEEEVE enough!11!!!1111' for a good while. It's almost nostalgic.

It’s depressing to have this double whammy with this in headlines plus usual pandemic mess

Goddamit I can't believe I've been dragged in.

See ya, keep on googling.

I am shocked. I assumed the government would be a bit more sneaky about breaking the law. The fact they do that disgusts me but doesn't surprise me.
I am worried that they're going to do it and get away with it. I worry where this will all end if we have an openly corrupt government.

Come now Ceaseanddesist - What could be more patriotic than unilaterally revising an international treaty we negotiated, signed, raced through parliament and brandished at voters a few months ago.

Ignore Michael Howard - he's a well known leftie.