To ask what you think about a British government openly declaring that it will break international law?

[Pepperwort]

This is regarding Johnson’s government’s new stated dislike of the Withdrawal agreement, which Johnson turfed May out over, negotiated, and signed.

For those not watching the news (living under rocks as it’s the top headline), the new Internal Market Bill they are presenting has a clause to the effect that any international law or court can be ignored at will. There are severe repercussions for the GFA and NI. The government have openly confirmed they will break the Withdrawal Agreement and any international law they don’t like. The EU has of course objected, and Gove has confirmed the government does not care. Not only could this scupper talks with the EU, but with the US, who have always been broadly supportive of Northern Ireland. It damages our international reputation in general and risks us being seen as a rogue state. This is beyond political posturing, just as it is beyond the old remain/ leave arguments, because we have already left. A former Tory leader and lord has spoken against it.

For voting, let’s say it’s aimed at the government. So YABU - Britain should not start its independent existence as a sovereign state by breaking laws. YANBU - go ahead, international laws are there for the breaking.

"Johnson’s government’s new stated dislike of the Withdrawal agreement, which Johnson turfed May out over, negotiated, and signed."

Four legs good, two legs better!

Jesus wept. Sorry, world. We are ruled by cheating, lying arseholes dragging the family name through the dirt.

I don't really understand what it means. Before anyone slags me out I won't be the only one who doesn't understand.

What don't you understand Nancy?

No really surprised tbh because it's Boris Johnson we're dealing with here.

Ignoring international law, bringing in laws without consultation as in the new 'rule of six' law.

We're living under 'Johnson's law' now and it seems anything goes.

@wherearemychickens
Any of it if I am honest.

Mostly the implications of this.

I get the part we may ignore eu law.

I don't really understand how that can impact us.

Hopefully someone will explain and not be too harsh on me.

I just hope Leave Voters are looking forward to a lifetime of turnips, beetroot, apples and berries for themselves and their descendants.

(Obviously there's no chance of them eating a bit of humble pie any time soon. And anyway, it's about four years too late for that. Bit of starvation, what does that matter when you've got a pet unicorn in the backyard, not to mention your sovereignty and your blue passport and your fishing rights back? [Assuming the fish have all been informed only Brits can catch them from 1 January 2021, that is.]

Anyway, it's only the poor who are going to starve, eh, not clever, bright, super-duper, ultra-independent Leave voters.

Yet I bet even if they end up hungry themselves they STILL won't understand why those of us on the Remain side were so concerned about the whole thing, given the personalities and precedents involved. Too busy feeding their unicorns and licking their blue passports. Amongst other things. I'm just wondering when kowtowing, cap doffing, and boot-cleaning with the tongue are going to be on the state school curriculum....

On the subject of feeding ourselves, bit of a shame about that 40% failure of the British wheat harvest after the summer we've just had though, eh. And I wonder how long it's going to be before the same news is released about potatoes and other crops.

Still, I'm sure those cars the Japanese have traded us for cheese will be just yummy with a bit of tomato ketchup and mayonnaise....(This is especially hilarious when you look at how much cheese the Japanese, in general, actually eat.)

Not only have we made ourselves the laughing stock of the world, we're also subjects of contempt and pity.

Still, as long as we've got the Wotsit in Chief and his chums on our side, eh. Because he also doesn't think twice about lying and breaking promises though again, his inane supporters can not or will not see it.

This is not the country I grew up in. It's become openly xenophobic, backwards looking, elitist, sexist...I could go on. I despair for the entity formerly known as the United Kingdom, and my contempt for those short-sighted muppets who persisted in voting for this lot is pretty much boundless.

So, out of curiosity, if you were trying to do business with the former UK, would YOU ever trust perfidious Albion again, after this? Or individual Brits, come to that?

@nancybotwinbloom - I don't really understand what it means. Before anyone slags me out I won't be the only one who doesn't understand.

Johnson negotiated amendments to the withdrawal agreement May had agreed. The new agreement was rushed through Parliament and then signed into international law. Several months later, Johnson's government has proposed a law that breaks the international agreement. Doing so also breaks the good Friday agreement as it is likely to result in a border on the island of Ireland

Charles Grant had a good thread on this earlier - some possible consequences:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1304074011626876929.html

The one thing this country has had is that we were reliable and had integrity.

Sorry, are you talking about Great Britain? Integrity?

@nancybotwinbloom - I get the part we may ignore eu law.

It's not an EU law that is being broken. It's an international treaty signed between the EU and the UK. Breaking an international agreement is generally something done by depots, dictatorships and other disreputable governments.

@OchonAgusOchonO

Thank you that does make things easier to google which I will know know what to actually google so thank you 🙏

Also, the bit that he's disagreeing with now is basically the only bit of it that he negotiated. It's stunningly in bad faith.

What it means for us as ordinary people living in this country is that the chances of no deal have just shot up - I can't count the number of commentators I've seen this week, who've previously been of the opinion a deal would be reached, who have held their hands up and said, um, maybe not then.

And no deal - particularly if it's acrimonious and we don't get the kinds of mitigations that the EU put in place last time - means food shortages in this country. No two ways about it. If you can, make sure you have food in the house. Even if I'm wrong - and I would love to be - the worst case scenario of you preparing is that you have lower grocery bills going in to next year.

I've passed beyond despair and fury to the gibbering stage. So, for a bit of light relief, who would you rather have -limited choice to these two only - as Prime Minister. Johnson or Gove? Which would you trust more? That's probably going to be a real choice in the future. Horrible thought.

Fucking terrifying choices there are people who post more sense on here about things than them to

Two

As expected only surprise is no surprise!

SophiaFour I agree with the concerns and frustration, but let’s not make this about the original leave/ remain arguments of 4 years ago. It is an irrelevant division now that we have already left.

There were fairly centrist people just on the other side of that vote who did not want or expect a No Deal scenario. Some will be just as, or more, horrified by this.

I am also stocking up on food supplies.

It's a very silly thing for us to do. It inevitably means that, until this current administration is replaced at least, we are not going to be trusted in negotiations with other countries (good job we haven't got a load of those to sort out in the next few years eh...) and will be treated accordingly.

However, I'm not at all surprised by it because first of all, Johnson is a lying liar who lies and second of all, the Tories never actually liked the backstop. They were always going to throw Northern Ireland under the bus.

Back to stocking up food.
I may be wrong but it appears the government is trying to make the EU abandon the trade talks so we end up with no deal, but the govt can then blame the EU's intransigence for no deal.
I'm not bothered too much about leaving the EU tbh (no ideological attachment to EU) but could do without food shortages, price rises etc.

Many Brexit voters won't care or will be positively pleased at the UK 'stickingit to the EU'.

It's not an EU law that is being broken. It's an international treaty signed between the EU and the UK. Breaking an international agreement is generally something done by depots, dictatorships and other disreputable governments.

"Dec 2019 A year after legalization, Canada remains in flagrant violation of UN drug treaties that it signed—an uncomfortable situation for a country that likes to see itself as a stickler for international laws and treaties."

www.cbc.ca/news/politics/un-united-nations-canada-marijuana-cannabis-drugs-1.5400112

"Nov 2018 Experts in international law say legalized recreational use of cannabis could spell political trouble on the international stage for Canada as it is going against three United Nations drug-control treaties."

www.canadianlawyermag.com/news/general/international-law-experts-say-legal-cannabis-defies-canadas-un-treaty-obligations/275627

@Clavinova - are you seriously suggesting that 1) it is a similar situation (hint: it's not) and 2) just because someone else does something, it's OK to do it?

I guess the Canada defence is the current tactic being encouraged by Cummings.

The government are amoral dicks who couldn’t give a shite about the people they are supposed to represent, but I already knew that. This is just another example of their perfidy.