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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what you think about a British government openly declaring that it will break international law?

385 replies

Pepperwort · 10/09/2020 19:50

This is regarding Johnson’s government’s new stated dislike of the Withdrawal agreement, which Johnson turfed May out over, negotiated, and signed.

For those not watching the news (living under rocks as it’s the top headline), the new Internal Market Bill they are presenting has a clause to the effect that any international law or court can be ignored at will. There are severe repercussions for the GFA and NI. The government have openly confirmed they will break the Withdrawal Agreement and any international law they don’t like. The EU has of course objected, and Gove has confirmed the government does not care. Not only could this scupper talks with the EU, but with the US, who have always been broadly supportive of Northern Ireland. It damages our international reputation in general and risks us being seen as a rogue state. This is beyond political posturing, just as it is beyond the old remain/ leave arguments, because we have already left. A former Tory leader and lord has spoken against it.

For voting, let’s say it’s aimed at the government. So YABU - Britain should not start its independent existence as a sovereign state by breaking laws. YANBU - go ahead, international laws are there for the breaking.

OP posts:
CherryPavlova · 10/09/2020 22:41

Michael Rosen has it;
Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you.

We have a rogue government willing to breach international law and jeopardise peace in NI because they want to line the pockets of their donors and cronies. Beyond reprehensible. More akin to North Korea tactics than a modern democracy.

StoneofDestiny · 10/09/2020 22:43

the English vote that is.

StoneofDestiny · 10/09/2020 22:45

NI is not on anyone’s agenda. The tories are going to bed every night praying they wake up to the news that NI has floated off and got lost at sea. They do not want to hold onto us. They will happily dissolve the union

Yes and that idiot Arlene Foster fell for Johnson's lies so easily.

longwayoff · 10/09/2020 22:46

This is the same Boris that was telling us we must obey his new law re covid yesterday isn't it? Just checking. Anyway, no surprise. Doesn't international law supercede national law? Or is that something else we can't see? Like Mr Cummings, I'm feeling a bit squinty.

Callardandbowser · 10/09/2020 22:48

Of course the Tories are going to fuck us over in every way imaginable- like Duh!

wherearemychickens · 10/09/2020 22:48

Yes, international treaties are binding even if you haven't domestically legislated to enforce them.

wherearemychickens · 10/09/2020 22:49

Imagine the uproar there'd be if it was the EU doing this.

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 22:51

Or if the Labour party had ever tried it on.

FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack · 10/09/2020 22:51

I'm beginning to think it's actually a way to attempt to ditch NI and all our associated problems.

It's more likely to cause more but this govt seem incredibly ignorant when it comes to NI issues, with the exception of Julian Smith.

Smallsteps88 · 10/09/2020 22:52

Yes and that idiot Arlene Foster fell for Johnson's lies so easily.

I’m very much not a unionist but I actually think Arlene had no choice but to be seen to be up boris’ bum whether she believed him or not. Personally I don’t think she believed him at all, she’s a shrewd woman and knows how it works. But she had the whole rest of her party and unionist voters snapping like a pack of dogs. She’d be out on her ear if she hadn’t gone along with the clown and she’s too ambitious and full of her own ego for that.

Smallsteps88 · 10/09/2020 22:55

I'm beginning to think it's actually a way to attempt to ditch NI and all our associated problems.

I’ve been under that impression since the Brexit idea was floated.

StoneofDestiny · 10/09/2020 22:56

We knew what we were getting when Johnson was voted in. Just in case anybody forgot........

To ask what you think about a British government openly declaring that it will break international law?
FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack · 10/09/2020 22:58

I don't know Smallsteps88 I genuinely think they're so ignorant and arrogant that they didn't even consider NI until issues like borders and peace treaties started to crop up...

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 10/09/2020 23:00

@Gladgreengrass

Embarrassed but sadly not in the least bit surprised.
I think this pretty much sums it up

I am so embarrassed i might need to start speaking with an accent

Pepperwort · 10/09/2020 23:00

@wherearemychickens

I have written to my MP and local Conservative Party association this evening on this issue. Please, others who think it's dreadful, do the same if you haven't already. It needs emails in inboxes.
I was thinking I’ll do that over the weekend, when I’ve thought of something more articulate than “Wtf?”
OP posts:
Smallsteps88 · 10/09/2020 23:01

@FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack

I don't know Smallsteps88 I genuinely think they're so ignorant and arrogant that they didn't even consider NI until issues like borders and peace treaties started to crop up...
There’s also that!!
Neolara · 10/09/2020 23:03

Boris has regularly lied throughout his career. It is unsurprising that he continues to lie as PM by saying that he would stick to an agreement when he clearly had no intention of doing so. The trouble is, lying has been a very successful and rewarding strategy in the past. He's got to be PM for f*'s sake. I think on this occasion it will come back and bite him, and I suspect take millions of us down with him. He is, imo, a complete and utter knob.

StoneofDestiny · 10/09/2020 23:05

Arlene Foster turns on Boris Johnson, saying she will never take him at his word again: 'Once bitten, twice shy'
This was The Independent headline in December 2019.

So all the leaders of Scotland, Wales and NI are speaking against him - so how do we expect the rest of Europe and the world to react.

Seriously hope he gets his ass kicked.

Houseplantmad · 10/09/2020 23:06

This Govenment is all about smoke and mirrors. I bet there'll be some kind of personal political scandal that will emerge in the next day or two to deflect from this. It'll be something already in the dirt file held by Cummings.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 10/09/2020 23:10

Oh and how the fuck they think they are going to get Covid compliance when they have popped a new phrase into british lexicon

‘breaking the law in a specific and limited way‘

StoneofDestiny · 10/09/2020 23:15

houseplantmad

Yes, Cummings will spew something out, or Prince Andrew will become the headline again.

StoneofDestiny · 10/09/2020 23:16

breaking the law in a specific and limited way

Yes, how many ways can we all use that!

KenDodd · 10/09/2020 23:18

I have written to my MP and local Conservative Party association this evening on this issue.

Someone on fb suggested asking about members business interests so that you know never to use them given that they are willing to break contracts they've signed and the law.

wherearemychickens · 10/09/2020 23:26

Yes, I saw that same idea on Twitter - that's what inspired the email to my local Conservative Association!

"As I understand it, the Conservative Party now advocates signing contracts in bad faith and breaching them after they are signed. As such, please could you provide me with a list of all your members, and any local businesses who may be supportive of your party, so that I might ensure that I do not unknowingly enter into any contractual arrangements with any of them?"

HappydaysArehere · 10/09/2020 23:32

The one thing this country has had is that we were reliable and had integrity. It will stop any trade agreements with America and certainly other countries. Johnson was the worst Foreign Secretary we have ever had and now he is certainly the most incompetent dishonest, immoral PM who thinks nothing of dragging our reputation down to his own abysmal level. Shame, shame,shame.

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