‘Fuck the Covid rules.’ Really?

[Yellownotblue]

To all the posters (there have been many) saying they don’t plan to abide by the new rule of 6 - is your attitude specific to Covid, or do you generally don’t care about acting illegally?

For instance would you drink and drive ‘because you have a good reason’?

Or park illegally or drive without a seatbelt?

Would you drop litter on the streets?

I’m genuinely confused by the admission that so many posters see law-abidance as a “nice to have”, rather than some basic standard of life and morality in a society.

Specific to Covid. The law is currently being changed frequently with no parliamentary oversight. This is not how the majority of U.K. laws are made, and therefore the regulations on Covid are not equivalent to those on drink driving, etc. And without any court cases we don’t actually know how the current Covid related laws should be interpreted in any case. Or what the limits actually are.

Stop it! Don't buy into that media claptrap. It is not blaming, it is identifying

To be fair this post and others on the forum recently are directly laying the blame with younger people. Just as many did towards older people earlier on in the pandemic, so it's hardly media claptrap.

I see the main problem as younger people (less likely to have symptoms, let alone be actually ill) thinking they’re fine to do whatever they like with absolutely no thought for those who are likely to suffer serious consequences if they catch Covid. Hence the large gatherings, parties etc.

I'm attending a wedding reception next week of close family. They already lost their money on their big venue and cut down from 120+ to 30 people as the government regulated. Having it in big family members garden. Now apparently, with 5 days notice, they have to find a covid secure venue (presumably an indoor pub?) not a big outdoor garden.

Fuck that. Now the wedding planning involves hiding cars and keeping curtains closed to avoid the stasi neighbours reporting.

What a country.

What I find is really odd is the complete inflexibility of people. grandmother on TV this morning -well, I can’t meet up with my whole family, one son is married, the other is married with two kids so it numbers 7. Fucking hell, just meet separately!

“Christmas is cancelled” no it isn’t, it’s still going to happen on 25th of December, you just can’t do exactly what you’ve done before, try something new! (I suspect large numbers of in laws a doing victory dances at the thought).

Compliance by me in Birmingham feels low. Just 5 out of 20 in one shop in masks.

I still can't see all people complying in their own living rooms. It relies on neighbours dobbing them in, which won't happen in many communities.

The expectations seem unrealistic. Naieve.

@Lifeisgenerallyfun

What I find is really odd is the complete inflexibility of people. grandmother on TV this morning -well, I can’t meet up with my whole family, one son is married, the other is married with two kids so it numbers 7. Fucking hell, just meet separately!

“Christmas is cancelled” no it isn’t, it’s still going to happen on 25th of December, you just can’t do exactly what you’ve done before, try something new! (I suspect large numbers of in laws a doing victory dances at the thought).

Yep! Just see the families separate days and the 25th by ourselves thank god

Don't buy into that media claptrap.

I don't. This is what I have seen and heard with my own eyes. There's even examples on this thread.
Yes, the elderly were blamed at the start - and called selfish because they had 'lived their lives', and how they didn't care about the younger people.
Now, the younger people are being blamed for killing the older people. Except kids, because they are fine either way.

naive

@CuriousaboutSamphire in many ways I agree with you but the ‘don’t kill granny’ slogan is in my opinion completely about apportioning blame . We have the most anxious young people in Europe already , we should be ‘all in it together’ not telling young people that if Granny dies it’s their fault

[quote Peaseblossom22]@CuriousaboutSamphire in many ways I agree with you but the ‘don’t kill granny’ slogan is in my opinion completely about apportioning blame . We have the most anxious young people in Europe already , we should be ‘all in it together’ not telling young people that if Granny dies it’s their fault[/quote]
It's twisted. It's irresponsible, like the time BJ told us we would all lose somebody we loved, as if it were a prophecy.

Whoever is messaging this (Cummings?) is not reading the room.

@AmelieTaylor

In a general sense the rules DO make sense! On an individual level they could be better HOWEVER too many people were taking the piss and too many were lying when confronted & it wasn't 'law', only guidance, so the police couldn't enforce it.

People chose to ignore the guidance, so they had to make it law.

Thank the people who were ignoring the guidance, for the new law and thank people who are going to ignore that, for the tougher restrictions that will need to be brought in, if infection (& Then resulting death) rates keep climbing.

They aretrying to do what people want - keep kids in school and prevent as many job losses as possible, have shops & recreational facilities open. Therefore school/work 'rules' need to be different than 'social rules'

If school/work rules applied socially we'd be fucked virus wise

If 'social rules' applied to school/work it would be impossible to function and they'd have to close, resulting in more job losses.

We CANNOT have it all ways!! Firstly it massively overwhelming the NHS, then we'd be having thousands & thousands of deaths and a totally tanked economy.

Eat Out to Help Out was a daft scheme virus wise, but they tried to mitigate it by having rules, unfortunately they weren't as tough as they should have been AND people used it as an excuse to ignore social distancing and meet up in bugger groups without social distancing.

It's NOT actually the Gives fault (as much as we like to blame them) that venues & people dust follow the 'rules'

They know from TTT where people have been passing on the virus & what age group they are.

There's a reason the scientists (not the politicians) decided on 6. It's a shame it wasn't 8, as that would have helped a lot of families, but it's not & no matter what number they used, people would have complained.

The 'two' families was a good option but people were taking the piss & groups were saying they were two families & the police had no way of proving they weren't on the spot) even when it was fucking obvious!

Bigger families do not need to always do everything together, take turns who goes to see Granny & Grandpa. Have one adult take some of the kids to see cousins. But if on the odd occasion you're driving a couple of hours to see the in laws or close friends and you make 7 in total, the police are not going to be battering down the door, but don't be doing it when you could split and see other people nearby within the law.

Not because it's 'law' but because we want to save lives, not cause even more unemployment & not have hundreds of thousands with life changing/limiting conditions.

They needed a 'law'that was easy for the hard of thinking to follow snd is easily enforceable and 'SIX' is that. Any age, any location. SIX

I really don't understand how people can't see the science behind it. Some people need to Reduce Rage & Engage Brains

Problem is we were told by Boris they were following the science, then they proceeded to rip up the road out of Lockdown map they devised following the science. We also don’t know how the number 6 was decided on. It was decided earlier on with the limited science. Has it been reviewed? The governments in Wales, Scotland etc are also following the science and have been able to allow more numbers. The communication from this government has been unbelievably poor so it isn’t surprising people are so confused and questioning ‘the science’. Since the daily briefings stopped we haven’t had the explanation given to us until things have started going wrong. We didn’t need daily briefings but I think weekly briefings would of been very helpful. I will follow the law but I am allowed to question it when I am receiving mixed messages from the government, told they are following the science yet not actually shown all the evidence (I’m not talking about case numbers but the modelling of what this intervention will have) so I am engaging my brain but that doesn’t mean blindly following the law without understanding.

I am concerned about the covid Street Marshalls.
Police (on the whole) will be well trained to assess situations.
The Marshalls may well be interfering busybodies (curtain twitchers) who will report those "smaller" than themselves but will not be standing up to the main offenders. Anybody who volunteers to be a Marshall should automatically not be allowed.

the ‘don’t kill granny’ slogan is in my opinion completely about apportioning blame That I agree with, wholeheartedly!

But not the science or changes to guidance to account for the cohort of people actively transmiting covid, or any other disease!

@DalzielandPaxo it sounds like it was a really unpleasant personal attack. I don’t have more free time since March, rather the opposite, but perhaps that’s why I can think rather than squat in front of box sets?

@fiftiesmum

I am concerned about the covid Street Marshalls. Police (on the whole) will be well trained to assess situations. The Marshalls may well be interfering busybodies (curtain twitchers) who will report those "smaller" than themselves but will not be standing up to the main offenders. Anybody who volunteers to be a Marshall should automatically not be allowed.

The TK Maxx 'bouncer' grilled me twice when I went in the store. I'm a 5ft middle aged woman. They also quizzed my mother.

My husband has never been questioned by them, nor my father, who have both been in the store separately.

There are some who will get a power kick out of this like the Chief Air Raid Warden character in Dad's Army!

the ‘don’t kill granny’ slogan is in my opinion completely about apportioning blame Personally I think that is an appalling thing to say, especially given how many will have lost grandparents. Only a crass insensitive idiot wouldn’t realise that it will hurt many people.

In a very specific and limited way I would break the law...to check ,y eyesight for example...

It 8s an absolute shit show. We are permanently on the back foot with thus blo9dy virus. Never really proactive but always reacting with seemingly daft rules too softly too late.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want police arrestingvoeople left right and centre but there have been unacceptable incidents of mass gatherings (1000 plus) and nothing significant has been done about it but now a group of 7 is break8ng the law.

Someone on the radio was kind of making a little bit of sense about it though. They said we need to look at it as a Corona Budget of people.
We need to get together in large groups for education and work to educate and keep life/economy ticking over, but then to limit any virus spread further, we need to reduce who we see beyond those large groups. Hence why the fun side, loving family side of life is impacted.

I'm not saying I agree but that explanation did kind of help me find some degree of l9gic in these bizarre rules.

My current coping mechanism is to not plan anything too big, thats a big deal and always bearing in the back of my mind that even booking to go to the local pub for tea this Saturday with 1 other person, is probably subject to change. Live life with the understanding thst anything you plan to do will probably be cancelled or changed with little or no notice and then be surprised , over joyed and relieved when it happens. It a shit way to live but it has actually lifted my mood when I've applied thus thought process. I never thought I'd be air punching for joy having completed meeting a friend for coffee sat outside Costa.

We are in such frustrating times. Its bloody hard on us all.

People aren't so keen to abide by the rules because they don't always seem logical. Take the eat out for half price thing coming after the, we're all too obese and need to get healthier - doesn't make sense. From the get go planes were still flying in and out of the country bringing millions of people to and fro without proper checks. Should've banned flying for a month at lock down, not bring in that rule weeks down the line.

But as someone said upthread, this is a virus. It is always going to be here, just like flu and the cold. It will mutate. Humans have come to believe they are infallible. We are not. There are too many of us and if we live cheek by jowl with other species then viruses jump species. If we fly all over the world in pressurised metal tubes the virus spreads.

I'm not trying to diminish the effects of this on those poor souls who have suffered it and the families left behind of those who have died from it. I'm just being scientific and logical. Nature has a way of rebooting itself. We are not that superior, mostly we are just fucking stupid!

I am a rule follower, but even I would stretch the rules with some educated risk assessment. Allowing grandparents to hold their new grandchild, allowing a family of 5 to still meet up with a couple. Allowing a family of 4 and a family of 3 to go for a walk together.

But (at the risk of sounding like Dominic, which I really don't wan't) I don't think it's malicious or a plot but just the best they could manage. Essentially they have made what was already the guidance now enforceable, and my assumption was that it was to allow the police some powers to break up large gatherings and prevent e.g. house parties because that has been shown to be a key route of transmission.

So it has to be simple for people to understand and remember it, but I can't imagine anyone being prosecuted for bending it slightly. The same way that technically you could be prosecuted for littering if something falls out of your pocket, but it's only likely to be enforced if you are deliberately throwing stuff on the ground.

I do think what is missing is a proper public education campaign so people can start to really understand precisely why it is OK for them to be in a class of school kids all day but not to then have a party for those same kids.

If people had been adhering to the guidelines then the law wouldn’t have needed changing. Sadly, too many thought their own wants came before what’s best for society.

Any other law breaking (bar motor offences) show on a DBS so I think people caught in groups bigger than six should have this recorded on file. Might stop more from deciding they are above the law knowing employers could see it.

During the first lock down my husbands uncle tried to drive to his sister to three times to comfort her after her husband passed away. Each time the police turned him back as against the rules. It later came out that Cummings had travelled across the country at this time, it wasn't law but guidelines and we should all use our common sense.
I have been using my common sense and will continue to risk assess and live my life accordingly. I suspect that at some point this government will tell us that these rules are only guidelines and we were again stupid for following them without question.
As for covid monitors- since when have we lived in a police state where we inform the authorities about minor infractions of arbitrary rules? If my neighbours want to see family then fine- they are adults and capable of their own risk assessments.

Protecting Cummings has reduced any credibility this government has about following the science to zero, eat out to help out compounded this and getting everyone back to work at the same time as schools and universities go back when they have been managing at home is just crazy.

We've had loads of big groups protesting, people travelling to other countries and not quarantining on return, people on planes with no masks but that's not the problem. The problem is two families totalling seven meeting in a park for a picnic.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss, have you seen much rule breaking? No doubt there is a section of society that say bollocks to the rules. However, I wouldn't be too eager to swallow the idea that it is down to naughty citizens doing prohibited things over and above people travelling to work, being at work, eating out, shopping, going to the pub...

It's a dangerous message that just doesn't ring true.

Sweden shows us the long term way forward - they touted a vaccine by September when lockdown was instituted in March, then a world class track and trace, then vaccine by Christmas, then moon shot testing costing £100bn, then a vaccine early next year. There is no magic bullet- the vulnerable have to shield, everyone carries on as normal, the virus passes through the healthy population - there will be some deaths, that's sad but they will be offset (more than?) by the lives saved (depression, suicide, operation postponement, alcoholism) through getting rid of lockdown.

For me it's specific to COVID and the irrational, heavy handed way our freedom is restricted. EOTHO... oh wait, don't, stay in with very few people, can't even meet up with another average sized family etc.