Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School acting unlawfully?

376 replies

emmapemma91 · 09/09/2020 15:58

My little girl started a new school Monday, she’s 6 and starting year 2. She has SEN and is waiting for assessment for possible autism.
Today she was only at school for an hour and I got a phone call saying to pick her up as they ‘can’t deal with her needs and she’s disrupting the class’.
Now she’s been put on reduced timetable, only doing mornings. Obviously I’m concerned about her mental health and how she’s coping but isn’t sending her home ‘unofficial exclusion’?. And should I call them out on this? They’ve said they’re going to need her picked up again tomorrow if she doesn’t settle. And it seems a bit extreme to put her on a reduced timetable after only 2 full days.

I will start the EHCP process soon but know the school need to use their resources to try settle her first, but it seems like they aren’t prepared.

OP posts:
DobbinReturns · 15/09/2020 07:47

No the school said the child could only come back on a reduced timetable, having unlawfully excluded her on the 3rd day

There's no excuse, the school knows how to complete the paperwork for an exclusion. They must enter the correct code on the attendance records.

There's also a process for reduced timetables.

Underhisi · 15/09/2020 08:36

Eng123 if the school cannot meet the child's they need to go through the proper channels not an unlawful exclusion and unlawful part time timetable ( unlawful because they are not following proper procedure including seeking extra support).

I also would say no paperwork no agreement to part time and if they still don't sort it out ( I would give them a few days) that in future they will have to exclude and produce the paperwork for that before you take your child home.

Underhisi · 15/09/2020 08:38

"Also what about the impact upon the other children trying to settle into school already disrupted by COVID."

The OP shouldn't be asked to consider that.

emmapemma91 · 16/09/2020 08:57

She lasted 10 minutes today and I had to pick her up 😭 school blame me because they want her in at 8am they think she settles better but my sons school transport comes at 8.25 and I can’t make it there and Back in time especially when I have to chase her around and carry her in first. I’m lost. My partner works early mornings

OP posts:
MillieEpple · 16/09/2020 09:35
Flowers Why do they feel she settles better at eight? Can they recreate that at 9.30 for you. Is it the bustle of other parents or is it staff have time at 8 to focus on her. Maybe they can get the rest of the class settled and then release a TA to focus on her for 15 minutes then.
JustSaying101 · 16/09/2020 10:03

So sorry to hear this OP. What time does school begin officially for your DD? Obviously you are unable to be in two places at the same time. Have you explained your situation to the school? I don't know enough about school transport but I'm presuming they pick up and drop off only from the home address and you would be unable to amend this to a different location. Perhaps a slightly later start time, say 10 mins after school has officially began and the 'rush' of people have dispersed may work better? It's certainly worth a try if it hasn't been explored yet. It is still early days transition wise and the school need to persevere and work with you to see what option works best. I think when your EP is next coming in, I would be inclined to suggest they are definitely there for the beginning of the day so they can make recommendations for your child to settle.

emmapemma91 · 16/09/2020 10:38

Yes, it’s so the classroom is quiet and the TA can settle her before the rest of the pupils enter.
School officially starts at 8.45, unfortunately school transport can only collect/drop off at my home address.
I have told the school I need to be here for my sons transport but they said ‘you really need to do this for your daughter’. They think I can get there and back in time but it’s just not possible.

OP posts:
DobbinReturns · 16/09/2020 11:27

They are way over the line, but I think you need to act tactically.

Email, shoe horn in about collecting after 10 minutes. Say you need a letter explaining the consequences of not being able to get DD in so that you can appeal to school transport to arrange to pick up DS from DD school.

If they reply I expect you've "misunderstood" but I think you'll really need solid paper trail here

forrestgreen · 16/09/2020 11:49

I think you need to specifically ask for information back by email rather than in person as you're usually wrangling dd.

I think you need to get arsy, saying the non negotiable is that ds is picked up at 8:25, if they can rearrange his transport then that's fine. You can drop her off after or before, you can drop her at the front door or classroom, you can come in or walk away but your ds needs picking up at 8:25.

Show how flexible to are.

Thisismytimetoshine · 16/09/2020 11:57

The timings are confusing. You can't get her there at 8, because you wouldn't make it back by 8.25 for your son's pickup, but you can have him picked up at 8.25 and make it to school by 8.45?
Is the issue really that you are late, and she's getting stressed going into an already full classroom?

emmapemma91 · 16/09/2020 12:20

No we’re always there on time. I can’t get her there by 8am as I’m the one who has to chase her around when she runs, then carry her into the classroom while she’s lashing out, then sit to calm her. I just wouldn’t be back in time. I don’t mind doing that if my sons already been picked up so I’m not rushing around.

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 16/09/2020 12:21

I'd imagine they want you there early because there will be staff free to help you do this... 🤷🏻‍♀️

emmapemma91 · 16/09/2020 12:24

Unfortunately not. I’m happy to take her there at 8 when my partners not on early shift, and the SENco is usually there to greet her, but it’s me having to settle her down and physically get her into the classroom.

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 16/09/2020 12:36

And this is an "additionally resourced and ‘outstanding’." school. Hmm

Sockwomble · 16/09/2020 12:46

Do you have any paperwork from them. I agree with asking for this in writing because '"you will need evidence for the school transport team".

JustSaying101 · 16/09/2020 12:50

I'm guessing that you staying there at 8am to help settle DD is not going to take a couple of minutes either, therefore, without your partner being there at home for your DS to get picked up, it will subsequently make you late for that home pick up. It could be an option to enquire whether pick up location could be changed or if you could get help for those mornings your DP is not around.

Saying that, does school allow you to stay for a brief period to help to settle at 8.45am? And (although it is early days) so far what is the success rate of that 8am drop off...i.e how long is it until you are being called to pick up after school 'officially' begins at 8.45am when the class is full of students?

drspouse · 16/09/2020 12:55

@Mehmen

Depends how disruptive she was. If she was causing safety issues then they are entitled to ask you to collect
Only if they are officially excluding her. Not just because they don't have the resources/can't be bothered to deal with her/want a break.
Thisismytimetoshine · 16/09/2020 12:57

Not just because they don't have the resources/can't be bothered to deal with her/want a break.
If they don't have the resources what do you suggest they do? Stop teaching the rest of the class whilst diverting the staff to this child? Given that it goes on for hours this just isn't feasible.

drspouse · 16/09/2020 13:05

If they don't have the resources what do you suggest they do?

Get them. Or formally say they can't meet needs.

Haenow · 16/09/2020 13:15

@drspouse

If they don't have the resources what do you suggest they do?

Get them. Or formally say they can't meet needs.

Well, quite.

I don’t see why some posters aren’t getting this. This little girl either needs the additional support or the school goes through the formal processes. If they don’t do this, they are denying her an education, be it at their school or another one. Proper evidence will support OP’s daughter in accessing appropriate education.

Those going on about the other 29 children don’t realise that, by not adhering to the correct processes, the school is directly responsible for the impact on the other children. The school need to either provide support or not - what they’re doing is wishy washy and unfair on everyone.

Thisismytimetoshine · 16/09/2020 13:17

@drspouse

If they don't have the resources what do you suggest they do?

Get them. Or formally say they can't meet needs.

Well, yes, given that the child was admitted under the fair access protocol it's odd that they haven't already done this. I wonder if there's a choice whether to admit or not?
forrestgreen · 16/09/2020 13:38

Can you get I touch with this fair access panel

walfordwatcher · 16/09/2020 14:00

I have much empathy for you, OP. I had 3 of my 4 children with behavioural and learning difficulties and another one with more physical and medical issues. All adopted as babies. All with ASD. Now they are adult we are foster carers for children with complex needs. So obviously we have been through much of what you are going through. If my experience taught me anything is that every children is unique, my twins needed different approaches, and no one size fits all. I also have to say we only ever came across one good EP, the others, well less helpful shall we say.

However, with my son who has similiar issues to yours, I took him out of school to home school. This was because he would scream and cry and disrupt the others in the class, and it was so not fair on the other 29 children who often had to be marched out of the class for their own safety, sometimes several times a day. And also upsetting for him. Although the school were great at trying to manage my son's needs, I realised this was impacting on the education and well being of everyone else in the class. So after I withdrew him I then compiled my own EHCP. bypassing the school completely. When this was refused I appealed and eventually my son was awarded a place at the most brilliant special school that he thrived in and loved. He was young enough to be helped. And although as an adult he still has severe issues, none of them are behavioural and he has never been violent since the day he left the first school.

Some years later we fostered a boy with quite similar issues, only of course there was little we could do as the local authority had parental responsibility. He therefore continued in the school to the detriment of others, and in fact (in his case being quite bright) he was able to turn this to his own advantage. This went on and on. One day he attacked several members of staff and was therefore excluded and given a residential placement in another area of the country. From what I have been told he continues this behaviour in young adulthood, and I have often thought if he had been taken out of mainstream at an earlier stage, if things would be different for him.

How much is covid impacting on the school/staff.your child? I ask because when collecting one foster child from school (mainstream), the children who needed a 1:1 or indeed any "hand on" support, were helped by TA's in full PPE. From the outside it looked quite scary and I did wonder how it was affecting the child themselves - and if it was scary for them also. I think teachers and support staff are in such a difficult and potentially dangerous situation now, and of course although dreadful for the children, how can they help a child calm down at a distance or in PPE. It must be awful for them.

So I wish you good luck and if I had one word of advice it would be to home school your child and apply to TPTB for a EHCP - maybe learn about specialist settings and once YOU have decided which school you think may meet their needs, then direct the EHCP with that in mind. It wasn't easy but I did it, because when you are fighting for your child you can achieve great things. Good luck.

emmapemma91 · 16/09/2020 14:23

Thank you @walfordwatcher. It has crossed my mind to take her out of school but it couldn’t be a long term plan and i need her in school to be able to get her assessed and a EHCP in place. I know if I homeschool then the LA aren’t required to give any help.

OP posts:
drspouse · 16/09/2020 15:35

My DS doesn't specifically have a 1:1 but they have (he's in a PRU) 3 staff for 6 pupils and none of them are in PPE.
The OT said she would have to wear gloves, mask and apron for school visits (because she goes into a variety of settings and it's Trust policy) but it is very unusual for a school to have this for school staff.