School acting unlawfully?

[emmapemma91]

My little girl started a new school Monday, she’s 6 and starting year 2. She has SEN and is waiting for assessment for possible autism.
Today she was only at school for an hour and I got a phone call saying to pick her up as they ‘can’t deal with her needs and she’s disrupting the class’.
Now she’s been put on reduced timetable, only doing mornings. Obviously I’m concerned about her mental health and how she’s coping but isn’t sending her home ‘unofficial exclusion’?. And should I call them out on this? They’ve said they’re going to need her picked up again tomorrow if she doesn’t settle. And it seems a bit extreme to put her on a reduced timetable after only 2 full days.

I will start the EHCP process soon but know the school need to use their resources to try settle her first, but it seems like they aren’t prepared.

[Pobblebonk]

@movingonup20

Dd is autistic, we picked her up a lot! If your dd is distressed what is the school meant to do, not sure what posters here expect, a magic wand? The rights of one child in a class do not trump the needs of the other 29 either. Reduced attendance increasing over time might be what she needs, meanwhile they need to come up with other plans but that will take time.

I've been right through the school system, it's not top trumps for who matters most

What parents are entitled to expect the school to do is to providesupport, not just give up and send the child home. If that means getting further professional advice on what support the child needs, or applying for an EHC needs assessment, then that is what they can and should do. The maximum time it should take by law to carry out a full assessment and, if appropriate, provide an EHC Plan is 20 weeks.

This isn't a matter of top trumps for children with SEN, rather the reverse; it's a matter of giving them adequate support to access the education all their peers receive.

[emmapemma91]

U will keep checking. I’ve also asked for all future communication from the school to be through email so I’ve got a paper trail.

[forrestgreen]

Ask when they'll be done, and keep ringing. This seems to be the schools starting point for arguing

[emmapemma91]

Apparently they minutes haven’t been written yet. Seems impossible to get some sort of paper trail to support a needs assessment.

[forrestgreen]

Could you ask for the minutes of the meeting by email

[emmapemma91]

Just been in touch with someone from Fair Access team and the meeting was last week. All that was said was she was to continue to attend this school, with a phased introduction, and the school could apply for additional funding.

[forrestgreen]

Can you get in touch with the fair access panel and find out what happened

[itsgettingweird]

But I'm not sure they should be doing that. If school have a place and you were top of list you can have place. That's how it works.

Fair access is for children without a school place.

You need proper advice here because you're being run round in circles and yin won't ever get what your dd needs all the time they are spouting crap policy to you and refusing to follow the law.

Exclusion paperwork is the law.

PT timetable is illegal but legal only with plan for FT and agreement of all parties

Reintegration meeting is law.

Providing work for child is law

EHCP being refused for a child who is excluded and can't attend FT is illegal. She has sen and may need more than can be provided with usual resources in Ms - hence why PT.

And you don't need assessments before EHCP assessment. That is the assessments!

They are playing you a Merry jig and you need to start being tough. Or you'll still be here in a few years time.

[emmapemma91]

It’s definitely going through fair access, as did it when she moved to the school outside catchment area

[itsgettingweird]

I'm hoping someone else comes on but if there is a space it's not fair access. That's for when a school is admitting a pupil because they need to attend when already full or risk of previous placement breaking down.


Bottom of page 3

*  Fair Access Protocols should not be used as a means to circumvent the normal in- year admissions process. A parent can apply for a place as an in-year admission at any point and is entitled to an appeal when a place is not offered*

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/275580/fairraccessprotocolssdepartmental_advice.pdf

[emmapemma91]

Not a managed move- I moved to the area last year and all the schools in the catchment area were full so I put her in a school out the catchment area. A place became available during lockdown and since she had been off school longer than actually at the school I decided to take the place at the nearer school, especially due to the fact it’s additionally resourced and ‘outstanding’.
I think it only went through fair access due to the fact she’s always has social problems

[FancyAnOlive]

[quote emmapemma91]@FancyAnOlive I have emailed the SENco specifically to ask for the reintegration plan. She rang me and said as it still hasn’t been to fair access panel there wasnt a need for one, it’s literally a part time timetable and review in 3 weeks.
I take her in early, before the other kids have arrived, and she has quiet time first. She also has her own chair and table at the back with sensory toys . Not too sure what’s causing her so much distress, but on the days she has been too distressed to manage school it’s easy to tell As it starts before school, whole getting ready, and she lashes out at me. Mornings routines are always the same so it’s hard to find a trigger but I will keep looking.[/quote]
Your poor dd, and poor you as well. I always get so anxious and stressed about how my dds will cope at the start of a new school year. I don't see why they can't arrange an online meeting with you to sort out a plan for now though, given what's happened - this is a very reasonable thing to ask for. Going in early is a good idea - this helped one of mine settle. Could the SENCO observe her during the morning to get an idea of when she begins to dysregulate? Also are they using visuals for her or lots of language - I see too much language being used all the time by teachers, we are so used to sorting things out by talking and so often this massively escalates the situation. Do you know what happens when she begins to dysregulate - do you think people might be overwhelming her with language? If you can meet with the SENCO, I'd be thinking about trying to dig deeper to find out what is going on during her morning/day, and using more ASD strategies to reduce the stress for her.

[itsgettingweird]

Is this a managed move if it's gone through fair access panel?

[Poppinjay]

She rang me and said as it still hasn’t been to fair access panel there wasnt a need for one, it’s literally a part time timetable and review in 3 weeks.

Ask her for a copy of the guidance she is following that tells her not to plan reintegration for children on part-time timetables.

[FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack]

Just wondering if anyone different is in the classroom on those days? In nusery school DS would always resist going on on certain days because one of the job share teachers would insist he ate his cooked lunch and he hated the food. Getting that information out of him was like getting blood from a stone though.

[emmapemma91]

@FancyAnOlive I have emailed the SENco specifically to ask for the reintegration plan. She rang me and said as it still hasn’t been to fair access panel there wasnt a need for one, it’s literally a part time timetable and review in 3 weeks.
I take her in early, before the other kids have arrived, and she has quiet time first. She also has her own chair and table at the back with sensory toys . Not too sure what’s causing her so much distress, but on the days she has been too distressed to manage school it’s easy to tell As it starts before school, whole getting ready, and she lashes out at me. Mornings routines are always the same so it’s hard to find a trigger but I will keep looking.

[FancyAnOlive]

I'm both a teacher and a parent of two autistic kids. OP, was there a transition plan for your dd to help her settle in? If not, then this is probably what needs to happen now. Do you know, or can you work out, what is triggering her distress? Is she going in with everyone else in the morning? Sitting in the middle of the room (very difficult for lots of autistic kids)? Does she get any sensory input/movement breaks she might need? If the school are treating her like a neurotypical child then her needs are not being met at all. One of the things about your post that was a bit of a red flag for me was about her 'disrupting the class'. I really dislike it when a child's distress is framed in this way, as being primarily about the effect on others. Her school should be focused on her needs and she is displaying severe distress. There are loads of strategies they can use (even with Covid). Just plonking her in the class and then removing her when she can't cope is not a strategy - though that's not to say that short days that are planned might not be a way in for her, planned with you.

[itsgettingweird]

[quote emmapemma91]@murgatroid yes, exactly that. Although can’t work out why they are so against an EHCP or outside agencies apart from not wanting to scupper their outstanding rating. Just so confused on the next step. Do I just keep sending her to school and see how it goes over time, or pull them up on these exclusions and try to get paperwork.[/quote]
Get paperwork. Set the standard NOW.

How long do you allow this to go on for? Then 2-3-4 months down the the line they are still sending her home and still have no evidence for EHCP.

There are laws. They aren't a choice.

Let them know now you know the law, expect them to apply it.

Copy in chair of governors and director of children's services to the email demanding all the paperwork for exclusions and PT timetable and give 5 days for the paperwork to be provided.

[itsgettingweird]

[quote emmapemma91]@1DoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor the SENco keeps talking about how we have to work with each other and how important it is to have a good relationship with each other, which I totally agree with as I’d much prefer to work with the school rather than against, but it’s just so hard at the minute I don’t know what to do for the best.[/quote]
I hate to say it but this is a huge red flag.

I've been there with a senco who would say "we have to work together" whilst refusing to put in place FT support, paperwork and support EHCP.

What it actually meant is "you have to do as I say or I'll accuse you of being obstructive".

And EHCP and school move later ds was a different child.

[Ellie56]

They don’t agree with me going for a EHCP and think I’m trying to ‘run before we can walk’ and she needs more assessments.

And how are they going to do that if she's never in school? They need to get their finger out and start being proactive instead of taking the easy option.

This is definitely not an outstanding school.

[Poppinjay]

They don’t agree with me going for a EHCP and think I’m trying to ‘run before we can walk’ and she needs more assessments.

I would point out to this SENCo that you aren't requesting an EHCP. You are requesting an EHC Needs Assessment. That is, you are asking for a series of assessments to determine your child's needs and how they should be met. What assessments does she feel are required before these assessments can take place?

She is not qualified to express an opinion on whether your DD requires an EHCP. Ow or at what point she may require one in the future. It would be totally inappropriate for her to pre-empt the result of a Needs Assessment in this way as those undertaking it have specialist qualifications and experience that she doesn't have.

She doesn't want to work with you. She's trying to frighten you and emotionally blackmail you into backing off and making her life easier.

[Sockwomble]

The school also said he would never get more support than was already on his plan. They were wrong.

[Sockwomble]

"Although can’t work out why they are so against an EHCP or outside agencies apart from not wanting to scupper their outstanding rating."

Schools are expected to fund part of the ehcp provision from their own budget. Being an additionally resourced school they will probably be expected to fund more than most schools because they receive a budget for this. You also get the LA saying to the school the child doesn't need a plan/ more funding for provision because you already have the expertise/ funding. They want to protect their status so don't want to say to the LA they cannot meet need. It is easier to do nothing and hope the parent puts up with it or takes their child elsewhere. This is why in this situation the parent makes sure that the send code of practice is being followed and unlawful practices are opposed.

My son attended a school like this. He was regularly sent home 'ill' because he looked a bit warm or was getting upset. When I refused to accept unlawful practices, fought for and obtained a fully specified and quantified plan, they admitted they couldn't meet need and he got a place in an appropriate school.

[murgatroid]

I have to say, from bitter experience, if you're waiting for the school to pull their finger and do the right thing, you'll be waiting a long time.

Also, if you're waiting for your DD to learn to cope at her new school......well all she's learning right now is that if she protests loud eough, she'll get to go home. So I don't see that working either.

The only way this will work is with a lot professional advice from outside agencies, extra funding for support, and a whole lot of willingness from the school. And I'm not seeing any of that...

[1DoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor]

As I said earlier in the thread we went through this process more than 10 years ago, my ds was illegally excluded time after time after time, I got calls asking me to collect him because he was "getting a little bit fractious" or he was "refusing to do any work" (the fact that he couldn't do what he was supposed to be doing didn't matter to them). They asked me to get him because "he looked a bit peaky and was tired" and "because he'd ripped up the worksheet" (because he couldn't write the words in the spaces)

The times that they formally excluded him they had every right to but the informal exclusions far outweighed those times.

We started off with a good relationship with the school because they put a positive spin on anything that cropped up but they very quickly began disregarding the law and because I didn't know how to navigate the system I was unsure what to do for the best.

In hindsight I should have made sure that they did everything by the book, from the very beginning. My ds suffered discrimination and victimisation. I almost lost my job and my home, DS was suicidal, dd wanted to go and live with my parents. Eventually the school admitted to the LA that they had been acting illegally, that they couldn't meet his needs, that they didn't have enough training, that their expertise was far more limited than they had stated.

My full story would shock many of you, others would nod and say that theirs are very similar.