School acting unlawfully?

[emmapemma91]

My little girl started a new school Monday, she’s 6 and starting year 2. She has SEN and is waiting for assessment for possible autism.
Today she was only at school for an hour and I got a phone call saying to pick her up as they ‘can’t deal with her needs and she’s disrupting the class’.
Now she’s been put on reduced timetable, only doing mornings. Obviously I’m concerned about her mental health and how she’s coping but isn’t sending her home ‘unofficial exclusion’?. And should I call them out on this? They’ve said they’re going to need her picked up again tomorrow if she doesn’t settle. And it seems a bit extreme to put her on a reduced timetable after only 2 full days.

I will start the EHCP process soon but know the school need to use their resources to try settle her first, but it seems like they aren’t prepared.

[NailsNeedDoing]

You need to do everything you can to fight for the assessment and an echp as soon as possible.

While the school may be acting wrongly, they wouldn’t make a choice to do this lightly, and as you think a reduced timetable will help then it’s worth going along with it. You could force it so that your dd is at school full time, but it doesn’t sound like that would be in her best interests or the best interests of the rest of the class.

[JJXM]

Yes, it’s an illegal exclusion and is very common for children with SEN. If the school are sending her home due to behaviour, then they will need to produce the paperwork. As for posters asking why the OP is asking about her rights when she concedes that her DD might benefit from a reduced timetable - it’s because it’s a slippery slope - first it could be mornings, perhaps that’s too much and two days a week are offered and then one day. If you give an inch when you have a child with SEN you often ended up being screwed over - by the council, health service, social care, everyone.

OP you really need an EHCP in order to get the help that your child needs - without that legal document you have very little power (and sometimes even then it’s not worth the paper it is written on). It’s a long process and you may have to appeal - so today contact the head of children’s services to request an assessment - you can email them and it starts the clock ticking.

[solidaritea]

This is an illegal exclusion, as others have said. It may also be in the interests of her wellbeing, however.

She sounds like she needs an integration plan to get her settled in the new school.

A few questions for you or for you to lose to the school. How were things in the old school? Have the new school got her files from the old school yet? What had been on place that was working?

A part time timetable is only legal if it is time limited and regularly reviewed.

You need an urgent meeting with the senco.

[Home42]

I’d ask for more details of her behaviour. What were the circumstances in the class, what happened, what did they try to do to resolve the issue...

Tell them you are happy to discuss her phased move to full time but you want to understand what they are doing to change things so that she will be able to join full time (E.G. getting another TA in place). What do they need you to support them with (E.G. tips for getting DD to move calmly between activities).

Basically this needs to be a discussion, a partnership between you and the school. They can’t just reduce her hours with no plan for how to move to full time.

I’d start trying to open an open and friendly dialogue with the school before you start asking them dangerous questions about exclusion paperwork and disability policies!! You can always bring out the big guns if nicely nicely doesn’t work!

[emmapemma91]

@JJXM thank you for your help. I have agreed to the reduced timetable As I think it will help but I do like to know that everything’s above board and in her best interests. I’m worried about getting a phone call every day now after a hour

I have a older child who actually has a EHCP and attends a special school, but his previous school were great with supporting him and didn’t put him on reduced timetables etc x

[canigooutyet]

Very slippery slope.
I used to let my sons primary get away with this stuff mainly because I was mentally drained having to fight everyone. As a result he was permanently excluded and I had a very long battle to get him the education he was entitled to. One of their get out clauses was because at the time he had nothing in place. Another was he was a danger to himself as he, like many with asd was a head banger.

THey should be working alongside with you, however from personal experience some teachers do think they know your child better than you.

An hour for someone with asd to be sent home is short tbh. What strategies do they have in place to cope with her?

[movingonup20]

Dd is autistic, we picked her up a lot! If your dd is distressed what is the school meant to do, not sure what posters here expect, a magic wand? The rights of one child in a class do not trump the needs of the other 29 either. Reduced attendance increasing over time might be what she needs, meanwhile they need to come up with other plans but that will take time.

I've been right through the school system, it's not top trumps for who matters most

[hiredandsqueak]

The only criteria that has to be met when a request for an EHC needs assessment is

whether the child or young person has or may have special educational needs (“SEN”); and
whether they may need special educational provision to be made through an EHC plan.
If the answer to both of these questions is yes, they must carry out an EHC needs assessment.

Your child is believed to have ASD and school are proposing a reduced timetable and have already stated they can't cope so you meet the criteria.
Do not delay, get help from IPSEA or SOSSEN and get the request in now.

[MissEliza]

You say she has SEN. Has she actually been assessed for anything? Did have you have a discussion with the school especially the SENCO about integrating her into school?

[Lovemusic33]

You have several choices, you can refuse to collect her? You can work together with the school to gradually introduce her to school life (build up the time she’s there)?

I would be pushing for a EHCP, if the school decide they can not meet her needs then you would have the option of a sn school or a mainstream that feel they can deal with it.

As a mum of a child with autism I have to say the primary school years was such a struggle, I wish the school would have held their hands up and said they couldn’t meet her needs so she would get a sn school place. I taught all through primary to get her out and didn’t get anywhere until she was in year 6, she’s now at a specialist school who are trying to fix the damage mainstream caused .

[midlifenewspring]

I specifically wanted this school because it’s additionally resourced and ‘outstanding’

My experience has been that the 'outstanding' schools ( is it in a 'nice' area?) are the ones who are worst with children who need additional support. They put all their focus into helping the academically able kids to do extremely well as they know this with boost their performance results and get them them the 'outstanding' grades they want. The inspections (where I am anyway) don't go deep enough to discriminate between the experiences of parents with children with any type of additional need (socially struggling, academically struggling or SEN) and those with kids who are doing just fine.
So the poor performance of schools with these children gets masked when they are the minority. I also have found at these 'outstanding' schools, the teachers are very career orientated, they try to fill their cvs with 'stuff' rather than focussing on being very good class teachers. If I had my time again, I would have chosen a school in different, less affluent area where the teachers are more likely to be experienced and committed to helping children who are struggling and where the teachers' are more motivated by genuine concern for their pupils than getting the cv fodder they need to progress their careers.

If I were you I would not waste my time fighting a school who are not interested in helping your daughter, but move her to somewhere that is.

[emmapemma91]

I’d rather work with the school to do what’s best for my little one, but at the same time i need them to know I’ll fight to get what she needs and I won’t let her get palmed off with no education because she’s too much for them.

[jessstan2]

Surely the school knew about your daughter's particular needs when they agreed to take her. Had they felt unable to cope with her, they should have told you and given you some advice about elsewhere.

I feel quite appalled on yours and your daughter's behalf.

I'm glad you accept the reduced hours but, honestly, 'phoning you to bring her home after one hour is not on. They were lucky you were local and available, I wonder what they would have done had you been at work in a meeting with your 'phone off.

Please do contact someone about this highly irregular behaviour, even though you are accepting of their decision.

All the very best to you and your family.

[JJXM]

My DS goes to a special school and if he becomes distressed there are trained staff to help him. The idea is that the whoever works with the child familiarises themselves with that child’s triggers and stops the child descending into a meltdown. OP’s school has lasted an hour and is clearly out of their depth but that’s not OP or her daughter’s problem.

As for one child doesn’t trump the rights of another - most people prioritise their own child as it’s human nature. My DS is more important to me than his classmates and he has had his hair pulled out, face scratched, kicked in the testicles causing bruising to the whole area, been sexually assaulted - these pupils were all punished but none were sent home and I did not enquire into their punishments or insist they were excluded. So I can put the needs of other children before mine. But I expect the school to do everything in their power before I am called in to pick up my son.

[emmapemma91]

She hasn’t had assessments of yet, we’re on a waiting list but previous school, nursery and health visitor believe She has autistic traits.
@midlifenewspring it’s actually in quite a run down area but it actually did comment to my partner they seem more concerned about their rating than the children as they said ‘it wouldn’t look good For us getting Services involved after a few days’.

It did go through fair access panel and they had all the information about her before they accepted her

[Ellie56]

Yes this is unlawful exclusion. Part-time timetables are also unlawful regardless of whether parents agree to it or not.

Unlawful exclusion of a pupil with a disability may amount to disability discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.

See here:
www.ipsea.org.uk/pages/category/exclusion-from-school

Exclusion Guidelines:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/641418/20170831_Exclusion_Stat_guidance_Web_version.pdf

In particular on P6:

“The decision to exclude a pupil must be lawful, reasonable and fair. Schools have a statutory duty not to discriminate against pupils on the basis of protected characteristics, such as disability or race. Schools should give particular consideration to the fair treatment of pupils from groups who are vulnerable to exclusion.

Disruptive behaviour can be an indication of unmet needs. Where a school has concerns about a pupil’s behaviour, it should try to identify whether there are any causal factors and intervene early in order to reduce the need for a subsequent exclusion.”

[Thisismytimetoshine]

Her previous school and nursery declaring her to have "autistic traits" won't carry any weight with regard for special need provision, op?

[emmapemma91]

@Thisismytimetoshine her traits include full on meltdowns when too loud, too crowded, sensory needs, social skill delay.. all reasons to be in a SEN register??

[Thisismytimetoshine]

Why hasn't she been assessed?

[spanieleyes]

I have children without an official diagnosis who hold EHCPS, indeed one child has just been given profound needs allocation ( ie 32.5 hours a week of funding) without a formal diagnosis of anything.

[RuffleCrow]

Yes this is an unofficial exclusion and it's completely illegal. There's an official process around exclusion that schools must follow. Make a formal complaint to the chair of governors as it was the head's decision and put your hard hat on. This is what mums of kids with ASD do: we fight and we fight and we fight for justice for our kids.

[jessstan2]

emmapemma: It did go through fair access panel and they had all the information about her before they accepted her
........
A fat lot of good that did.

Do you know what actually happened in that hour before you were telephoned?

I wonder what they do with really naughty children who kick, punch, swear and steal.

[scoobydoo1971]

My daughter has SEN. She was eventually diagnosed as severely dyspraxic, and having a sensory processing disorder mostly affecting the auditory pathway. She has suspected autism but we are waiting for assessment. It was a long slog of accessing NHS development clinics, a private occupational therapy assessment and the school speech therapist to get a firm diagnosis (around 3 years of effort). However, her primary school were useless and blamed me for her behaviour (as a working single parent with medical conditions I was failing my children and they have mental health problems apparently...). I placed her in another primary school but that didn't work either as their idea of reasonable adjustment was putting her in a hallway on her own aged 7 with a book for four hours while the other kids did a music and drama project that she couldn't tolerate (loud sounds are agony for her). She is home educated now, and thriving as that incident was the straw on this camel's back and I said 'never again'. However, it can be a long process to get a ECHP in place, and having a firm diagnosis helps with that so you need to go to the GP and plead the case (most paediatric outpatient services are limited nowadays due to COVID). If you can afford it, go down the private route, as it is more difficult to get girls diagnosed with ASD than boys at a young age. Claim DLA without a firm diagnosis and use that money to find therapists and psychologists who can help you. Good luck!

[AllWashedOut]

I have a relative whose job it is to coordinate SEN across schools. Something similar happened to my relative's child. I told her and she explained that sending kids home for SEN was illegal.

[RuffleCrow]

Yes @midlifenewspring. I think it's actually wiser to go for a 'good' school these days. 'Outstanding' schools are only inspected every 10 years! My dcs school lost their Outstanding headteacher almost immediately after it received that accolade. Since then they've been through two new heads, each shitter than the last. But from the Ofsted you'd think it was a wonderful school. It's about 5 years out of date! Think the original head only aìmed for outstanding as personal career goal. He was out of there so fast you couldn't see him for dust. It wasn't about the kids or the school at all.