School acting unlawfully?

[emmapemma91]

My little girl started a new school Monday, she’s 6 and starting year 2. She has SEN and is waiting for assessment for possible autism.
Today she was only at school for an hour and I got a phone call saying to pick her up as they ‘can’t deal with her needs and she’s disrupting the class’.
Now she’s been put on reduced timetable, only doing mornings. Obviously I’m concerned about her mental health and how she’s coping but isn’t sending her home ‘unofficial exclusion’?. And should I call them out on this? They’ve said they’re going to need her picked up again tomorrow if she doesn’t settle. And it seems a bit extreme to put her on a reduced timetable after only 2 full days.

I will start the EHCP process soon but know the school need to use their resources to try settle her first, but it seems like they aren’t prepared.

@AnneofbigCleeveage Your comments were completely discriminatory, hence why they were removed. Stop trying to play it down...

[quote AnneofbigCleeveage]@windyautumn Yes, i also mentioned a number of disruptive children in my childs class and gave examples ,how that affected my childs learning and steps i took to secure my childs learning. I have a full copy of my text and happy to send to OP . [/quote]
You said a lot more ableist, disgusting comments. Stop defending your comments when you've been obviously called out on them. And stop trying to encourage the OP to ask for you to send it to her. Hideous.

so if you are not happy with SEN provision which your child is entitled to pay for private
Hmm does it not occur to some people that families may not have money to do this?
I knew of - via informal network of other parents with disabled dc - dc who were carefully eased out of schools once the schools recognised the dc disability, & equally other schools who took the same dc on because they were inclusive. Attitudes to disability in education - especially when parents don't have the confidence, education or support networks is a challenge for the dc parent/carer. &its made worse by judgemental attitudes of other parents who tend to make one feel that you are either a bad parent who caused the issue or a nuisance.
I was lucky with my dc - we accidently chose a caring supportive school who helped fight for her in both primary & secondary. But that didn't mean we didn't come across these attitudes from some people on the staff or some parents & the state - trying to get hours via annual review (different system than).
A good school works with the parents & shows they want to - they will be approachable & not make light or ignore your concerns. God help me by the time dd had finished High School if I rang to talk to the Senco they greeted me by name - before I mentioned who I was (embarrassing or what!)

Mental disability be it ASD, ADHD, LD or mental health is always one of the hardest to get support or understanding

@mumwon Agree with you there. Clearly it doesn't occur to some individuals that people are unable to simply shake the money tree and purchase private education. And what many individuals fail to realise is that some independent mainstream schools will not admit children with additional needs. So what happens to all the other children that fall through the cracks? The system is broken unfortunately. There is such a disparity among some mainstream schools that are inclusive and others that are absolutely shocking.

The system is completely broken, and frustration at that broken system is why I left teaching in the end. I have no SEN children myself, but have taught a great many over the years in both MS and SN schools. I have seen SEND done very badly over the years, and more often that not when it has been done well it has been due to individual teachers/TAs who have excelled.

As a friend, the advice I have given to my close friend with SEND has, at times, been contrary to what my own school/LA has been equip to offer.
As a teacher I would fight tooth and nail for the best support for my little ones. I have sat in recent staff meetings horrified at how SEN support staff are split/stretched between children. This wasn’t the case, even a few years ago, at least not to this extent anyway. Each parent believed that as ‘their’ child had funding, that money employed a member of staff to work with their child.

When I argued the case, about how little support each child was getting, the response was “there is no longer such a thing as 1:1 support, funding only stretches so far as to give a child support but that may need to be linked with another child’s access to support.” Often this means a placid child with SEN gets far less than their entitlement as the more ‘disruptive’ children.

Far too many times the school business manager/the lady in the office took my class, so I could support a child who was having a meltdown, because support was already too stretched. That is on a good day. It all breaks down further if there is staff illness as there is literally no money to pay for supply.

The saddest case was a child with ASD and ADHD. He would spend the majority of his school days out of the classroom because his outbursts involved throwing furniture and poo. He had broken staff bones on more than one occasion and understandably when TAs got placed with him they would automatically seek advice from their unions. It took until he was in KS2 for him to be able to apply for a place in a special school. However, by that point he had so many incidences of exclusions due to violent behaviour the special schools declined him saying they couldn’t cater for his needs. He spent far too long in a PRU until finally finding a school to accent him in a completely different authority.

It should never get this far! The government need to massively increase the budget for SEND. More special schools, funding that can actually afford to fund what it is promising, early support and recognition. These children would all benefit massively from early intervention, the number of children that arrive at school and the first thing anyone knows about SEN is when they are already in the classroom. The OPs little girl is 6. 6! Why is there no EHCP in place for her? This should have been picked up way before she started school especially as she has an older sibling with recognised SEN.

I hope it all gets sorted quickly for your little one OP. If it was my child I would fight tooth and claw too.

Despite the misinformation to the contrary, this is very clearly an illegal exclusion.

There is no paperwork, there was no discussion (telling parents their intentions does not constitute a discussion), there is no mention of identifying the cause of the child's distress, there are is no plan to provide additional support or interventions, no outside professionals have been invite to assess her and the parents' consent has not been sought.

The school has a responsibility to make the changes required to enable this child to attend school without distress. Simply sending her home and saying they will review that in three weeks is woefully inadequate, unlawful and does nothing but postpones the problem for the child and her classmates.

For the school to determine that they cannot meet this child's needs, those needs must first be identified. This is not achieved by simply sending her home.

They need to get their heads out of the sand, step up, work with the OP to identify the child's needs, plan support and interventions, implement them, review them and start building a file of evidence to support the EHC Needs assessment.

During this time, if a part time timetable is agreed with the parents to be in the child's best interests, that should be agreed with the parents in advance, the reasons, purpose, anticipated duration and reintegration plan recorded in detail and it should be reviewed in consultation with parents often. It should not be used to protect school budgets, make life easier for staff or prevent disruption to other students.

OP, it may be a good idea for you to download the SEND code of practice and make yourself familiar with the section on SEN support in schools.

@Poppinjay thank you, that is exactly the type of thing I need to have a read of. I’ll do that now!

Other parents can make the same choices as me. Parents of SEN children can send their children to the same independent schools

Nope. These schools are selective, and even if they do provide additional support, it costs extra and most can’t afford it.

It’d be very hard to afford to a independent School when I’m unable to work due to needing to be here for my two SEN children. Even if they both went to school full time they would definitely not go to a after school provider and I’d still need to go to a multitude of appointments between them. My partner works but only earns enough to put food on the table. I don’t feel like the child should suffer because parents can’t afford private education.

'Mainsteam' independent schools generally do not cater for children with significant sen. Specialist independent schools generally only take children who are funded by a LA ( the exception being those for children with a specific learning difficulty) and the placements are £50 000 a year upwards. Some can be over £100 000. Some of these would be avoided if children were given the right support from the start.

Some children are now in these placements because state special schools are full because so many children are been failed in the mainstream sector.

@Underhisi
Some children are now in these placements because state special schools are full because so many children are been failed in the mainstream sector.

Whilst I agree with your overarching point regarding the early support for children, I do have to say that I think you're wrong here. It's more that special provision has been so drastically reduced and more students forced into mainstream where, even with adjustments, the environment is not right for them.

The number of diagnosed children with SEN has been increasing whilst their provision has been decreasing. Some are being forced into mainstream schools where no amount of adaptations could ever make that the best (or in some cases even an adequate) learning environment for that child.

I agree but I think there has also been an increase in permanent exclusions at primary age and those children being forced into inappropriate special schools which in turn is leading to those schools becoming overcapacity. These are often 'high functioning' children for which a traditional special school would never have been appropriate. There is a real issue around ASD provision generally. There is no state provision within 2 hours of where I live which results in parents fighting for independent provision.

My daughter is in independent specialist school now as was my son previously the fight to get them the provision they needed was far more costly, time consuming, frustrating than anything I have experienced previously.
For @AnneofbigCleeveage the cost of their placements start at £70k pa and such schools do not accept parental funding anyway, the Local Authority pays. Both attend(ed) out of County schools as there isn't the provision in our County.
What I have learned is that Local Authorities and schools ignore the law as a matter of course. Sometimes with schools it is simply that they have been schooled in LA policy and sometimes it's down to ignorance but with LA's it is definitely a deliberate and endemic (in our LA at least) disregard for their statutory duty.
I have the LA Head of SEND's lies on record and later her apology when she realised she could no longer deny her lies when presented with the recording. I got an LGO ruling and about £2k from the LA as a result of my complaints.
I have an apology from the HT for her lies as well after the Head of SEND decided to come clean and drop her in it. OFSTED accepted my complaint against the HT citing it raised serious concerns about leadership and management but they don't bother to inspect early and chances are HT will have moved on before the next inspection.
It is such behaviour that parents are up against when trying to secure the provision their child needs.
For OP my advice would be do everything in writing all communication by email. If you are ambushed document what was discussed and email asking for confirmation that what was discussed is accurate in your email. Record any meetings (I have a great dictaphone from Argos for about £25), you are allowed if it is for your use only and you don't have to tell anyone you are recording either. Become familiar with the SEND code of practice, keep IPSEA and SOSSEN's details handy to double check everything you are told by LA or school. Check your entitlement to Legal Aid because if entitled you can enlist a solicitor to handle any appeals to SENDIST and most of all keep your chin up and keep fighting to get your children's needs met because really only you have your child's best interests at heart others have other motivations be that funding or SATs results at the end of the day.

We have the opposite @underhisi and have a ridiculous amount of ASD provision and next to no SEMH/S&L provision. My DD

We have none of those either. All state special schools are for SLD/PMLD.

@Iamnotthe1 You’ve explained that very well, it’s exactly what we’re seeing more and more of. Mainstream schools are designed for neurotypical children and and, while adaptions can be made for lots of children, many others suffer because of the lack of specialist provision available. A child in my class last year (then Year 3) is working at an age of 18-24 months in all areas and is non verbal due to a complex brain condition. There was not even a socialisation benefit to having her in mainstream, as she cannot understand or communicate with her peers. It was so, so sad watching her being trapped at a table with her INA all day in our formal KS2 classroom rather than accessing the active, role play based learning that she needs.

There is a lack of suitable special schools. Generic special schools are no better than mainstream for some children and in some cases worse even when the child has significant sen.

@uglyface

Thank you.

I've been in similar positions and, you're right, it is just heart-breaking.

Does your child have 1:1 help?

Nope, she’s only been at this school a week

School said the request for EHCP would be declined straight away and advised against it.

@emmapemma91

School said the request for EHCP would be declined straight away and advised against it.

Are you sure you've understood correctly?

Yep, got a call from SENco after a email I sent asking for My little ones reintegration plan, duration, reason etc. As evident as I’ve applied for a EHCP. She said she doesn’t need an reintegration plan as it hasn’t actually went for Fair access panel yet (I got told it did before July) and they’re supportive of the part time tome table. As for the EHCP she thinks it will be declined due to not enough assessments and not going through 2 terms.

Thats not true, my child got one in reception. We applied in the November, so she wasn't even at a full term. It was all done and approved by April.

Sounds like your school are fobbing you off. Unless rules have changed (this was 3 years ago for us)

@emmapemma91

"If a local authority (“LA”) is requested to carry out an EHC needs assessment by a parent, young person, school or college, they must consider:

- whether the child or young person has or may have special educational needs (“SEN”); and
- whether they may need special educational provision to be made through an EHC plan.
If the answer to both of these questions is yes, they must carry out an EHC needs assessment."

This test is set out in the law (section 36(8) of the Children and Families Act 2014). This means these are the only questions the LA should be asking when considering whether or not to carry out an EHC needs assessment.
The school does not have to show they have done x, y and z for however many terms, show they have spent £6000 first or fulfil any other similar criteria.
They are all policies set by countless LAs, all unlawful, and designed to put parents off and reduce the number of EHCNA requests being made.

If the LA decline the EHCNA, you can appeal to the SEND Tribunal which is independent of the school and the LA.

The Tribunal will only be interested in what the law says, not LA policies.

Don't be fobbed off OP. The school clearly can't meet needs as she's not in school half the time. The part time table is your evidence that they should carry out an EHCNA.

Information here:

www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Oh and I would be asking the school what they intend to provide for the time she's out of school as she is still entitled to a full time education under Section 19 of the Education Act 1996. And if they don't provide anything, complain to the LA.