Husband's down time

[Pondlife87]

We have a 16 month old daughter who is a terrible sleeper.
Both my husband and I work. He does 5 days a week and I do 3.
We did split maternity. When i was off i did all the night wakings. When he was off we shared it as past 3am she will not settle without feeding (she is breastfed).

Now we are both back at work he does the first shift (10.30-2.30) and i do the second shift (2.30-7) of her waking. She tends to end up in bed with us from about 4 as otherwise I'm up every 30 minutes settling her. We've tried having her in bed with us all night, but she just wants to feed constantly if I'm near her and won't accept Dad.

So- i get to my point. Dad has always been a night owl and stays in his workhouse every Friday until 3am doing projects. This means we have to swap the shifts. This means I am up between 10.30-3 resettling her. Then when he comes to bed, because she needs to feed I am awake hourly resetting her and she will only accept me. Then because he has been up until 3am he gets the lie in. I get the lie in the following day.
I have expressed i am unhappy about it as I get next to no sleep all Friday night because i essentially do both shifts. He argues that lots of men/ women go out every weekend.
However i do not think it is ok to go out every weekend until 3am if you have a child, so i don't see why this is different?
I've suggested he can go out but take the baby monitor to do thr first shift and he said no. I suggest he go out and come in earlier at say 12/1 and he said no.
Am i being unreasonable with my requests?
Is there a middle ground? Can you offer any otjer solutions?
Please note this is not a request for advice to help baby sleep better. I've tried everything haha.

Babies have different sleep needs and length of sleep cycles.

Yes, and by 16 months there should be longer NREM sleep cycles which won’t be happening if she wake every 30 minutes.

There’s all that interesting research about sleep spindles and their importance in cognition and memory which should occur in type II sleep (non REM). There are supposed to be 4 stages of non REM sleep and REM sleep in a sleep cycle - hard to fit in within a 30 minute timeframe especially with full arousal between cycles.

Yes there should be a more even split but, I say this as someone who was still bf ds in the night at nearly 3, she shouldn’t be waking as often. A couple of times a night yes but not every 30 mins. Either she’s hungry, if so feed more caloric food during the day and the key one ( as I was told by an nhs dietician) make sure there is a two plus hour gap between food during the day otherwise they get used to constant food and want it at night as well or she’s in pain and is feeding for comfort.

After an AS, I have to say; your DH really likes his lie ins, doesn't he?

Even quoting some of the posters in one of your threads before baby was born:

*"What does he think will happen with lie ins when the baby comes.
And he could go back to bed straight away"

"I sincerely hope this isn't a prelude as to how he will be after the baby comes. What a selfish prick. I would NOT let this go."*

Then there's an entire thread from earlier this year that clearly indicated that he is neglectful towards your DC. I remembered that thread the moment I found it.

Please take a look at the situation you're in. This isn't right, is it?

I think people are being a little unkind to the OP here. I've taken a totally different approach from her with my own children and it would be easy to be a bit smug and give unsolicited advice, but she was clear that she and her partner have made specific choices to do extended breastfeeding and not to night wean. That's up to them, and it seems to be a considered approach. I know most people are not intentionally criticising, but rather trying to offer advice that will help the OP (and husband and baby) get more sleep, but that isn't what she was after.

If you decided on this approach together then of course you're not being unreasonable to share the load fairly. Work being a reason to have a big disparity in your 'shifts' is one thing; a hobby is quite another.

OP - I hope you can find a way forward with more support and a fairer share of the work with your husband. But do also bear in mind that it's fine to change your approach if that's what will work for you and your family, too. It's ok to change your mind about things. I'm aware this comment might seem contradictory given the first part of my post but it isn't meant to be - I think your husband is unreasonable, you made these choices together and he should support them properly. Just know that the option is there to change things up if you want to. Best of luck!

Yabu.
And the fact that she is 16 months old and still wakes like a newborn is not a good sign. Something needs to chance. And id say it is probably you (with the feeding and settling etc) 😊

He knows when his shift is. Why doesn’t he do his hobby from 3 am? The reason is because it feels like shit and he doesn’t want to be up all night. But That’s the situation you’re in and you aren’t getting hobby time. Tell him it’s not reasonable to swap shifts when you can’t actually swap shifts and if he wants to do his Bobby he’ll need to do it during your shift time, not his.

*Hobby, not Bobby. Damn it.

That sounds exhausting for everyone.

I agree that sorting out her sleep will help you all. I was a long term breast feeder but knocked nightfeeds on the head long before my DD turned one. They just don’t need milk in the night. Yes they might need comfort but if you stop doing nightfeeds she will begin to settle.

We weaned DD off nightfeeds by doing ‘pat shush’. It worked after a few days.

Separate beds for you and DH.
Co sleep with the baby.
You do the first shift every night...roll over, expose boob, fall asleep as best you can with baby attached.
At 3am tough luck baby, mummy is empty. Tuck her in beside DH. Water in cup or bottle if thirsty. Shut his door and your door. Go back to your own bed and go to sleep.
Calpol on the bad nights...mine is the same age and waking a lot pulling her ears as her canine teeth are on the way.
He can do his hobby thing every night till 3am if he wants, on his head be it if he's exhausted.

Her waking every 30 minutes is down to habit not need. When she wakes up start giving her water. She’ll soon learn that it’s not worth waking up every 30 minutes for. If you continue to insist on BF and settling her every half hour then to be fair it should only impact you and not DH.

This is such a weird thread. The OP and a couple posters in her ‘tribe’ are extremely defensive about their methods, while at the same time using elitist language about it and their ‘highly intelligent’ children, insinuating that anyone who doesn’t use their methods is following a disproven archaic method and raising plebs.

Is having a large chunk of sleep disproven by science?! It works for me! And you know, normal life.

But at the same time, the OP said she’d tried everything to get this kid to sleep.

I know this isn’t what you wanted help with but it sounds such a miserable and excessively tiring way to raise a child, OP. I fear you’re being so child-centric that you’re going to have much greater problems down the line.

I just can’t see how you’re happy with a toddler that wakes continuously through the night and won’t play independently during the day while you’re trying to do housework. But you say you are so crack on, I guess.

I suppose the question is how would he react if you wanted to stay awake until 3 am on the sat night ? If you think he'd be fine with it, then YABU. Also, if he's generally a supportive father, which is sounds like he is, then YABU

I am a big fan of everyone needing their downtime. He's getting his and it's pretty harmless in the grand scheme of things. Just make sure you get your own.

To summarise, I think you would be very unreasonable to dictate to him that he can't do this.

Do all you people preaching, yes PREACHING to me about how I need to get my baby to sleep through the night realise that your ramblings are based on post Victorian behavioural theory that has now been disproved

I don’t understand op, what’s been disproved? That children your daughter age ideally should sleep more than 30 mins at a time? I don’t think this is the case.

I think you’ve focused yourself on “research“ so much you’ve neglected to take a step back and look at what’s Actually occurring, your child has very poor sleep patterns which is not good for her. It isn’t good for any of you. She needs her sleep, you all do.

Sometimes you need to walk away from an idealised idea when the impacts are more detrimental than the benefits.

I agree with Bluntness. If you're saying you're happy with being woken up multiple times during the night to feed then carry on, but stop complaining. Your child does not need milk through the night. Your current situation is making you sleep deprived and angry at your husband for not helping 50/50. If it were a baby I would agree with you but it's not, it's old enough to drink milk and eat food during the day.

Well, you could give your husband a list of options. He can choose:
-Nightwean now so he can balance out the double shifts he’s handing you.
-accumulate a week of night parenting solo for every continued week of this

• when bub wakes fridays On his shift you take her into his workshop (it’s on the premises?) And hand her over

-he takes the am shift every night (presumably bub doesn’t feed On his shift so you can swap those around?) . And if he doesn’t like the idea of hobbying all night then being up with the dc the rest of the night, sauce for the goose... -you go once a month for a weekend at a hotel, bub will be fine with dad, much younger breastfed babies manage separation. I’d mark this as my default if he can’t choose as it’s the easiest for you to implement solo. Plan to stay with a friend if cost of a hotel is a problem.

OP, you seem to be relying on that language explosion at 18 months to begin the process of weaning.

I'm sure it won't surprise you that every child is different. What are you going to do if your child doesn't have that explosion and her language develops much more slowly? Are you planning in that event to go on like this indefinitely?

Post Victorian behavioural theory? What are you on about? If you want to carry on doing attachment parenting then crack on. You didn’t make clear in your OP that was what you were doing.

I did EBF but from one I knew my kids didn’t need milk at night so got them to sleep in other ways.

Re your husband, yes if you want to continue in this vein then he needs to be on board. You all sound exhausted tbh.

I can't be critical of the OP's DH, he must be craving some "me time". I'm not critical of the OP either because she obviously needs "me" time too.
Her DH has cracked first!
I would have worried if any of my 4 DC's had only slept for 30 mins at a time, and they were all breastfed.
However, like other PP's I was flexible with my DCs, but I gently encouraged them to sleep and by 3 months they all slept from 11pm to 6am.
Okay you can say I was lucky, but they never went to bed thirsty and they had their own cosy space which allowed them to settle.
What I want to know is why at 16 months the OP's DD will not take a bottle or a cup??
You do know how dangerous this is if she gets a sickness bug ?
Op do yourself a favour and admit the answer to you getting more sleep is not down to a possibly selfish DH but your rigid attitude to night weaning a child who is only feeding at night because she can.

I think this happens sometimes though, people try to do their absolute best, they read all the research, focus on what they think is the ideal way to raise a child based on the research they deem as right, and forget to take a step back and use instinct, to look at what’s actually occurring.

The op is angry because she knows everyone is right, that it would be better for her child to get a decent nights sleep, and that this is moved to a stage it’s more damaging than beneficial.

Every child is different, every child has different needs, there is no idealised way of doing anything, the only right way is the way that is right for the child and the family,

Sometimes you just need to climb down from your principles and focus on your child’s individual needs and forget the research.

Op you’re clearly trying to do your best for your child, but it’s time now to focus on good sleep hygiene and getting her into a routine, where she can sleep for extended periods during the night, is not hungry and you can do things during the day without her on you. For her sake as much as you and your husbands.

The op is angry because she knows everyone is right, that it would be better for her child to get a decent nights sleep
I expect she’s also angry because her husband is ostensibly on the same team, pushing this approach but not wanting to also pull his weight in implementing it. Whether or not they wean and sleep train there are some responsibility issues there, I’d have issues with his approach (assuming he’s as onboard as she says).

@Bluntness is absolutely spot on!

Is having a large chunk of sleep disproven by science?! It works for me! And you know, normal life.

I think there’s been extrapolation from how all humans have sleep cycles - I think adult cycles are 90 minutes? - and we often remember some of the awakenings between cycles to “this toddler waking every 30 minutes and needing to be resettled with a feed is normal!”.

Whereas at 16 months this toddler’s 30 minute cycles are too short and she hasn’t worked out how to transition into the next cycle by herself. She won’t work it out while she has such a strong sleep association (breastfeed to resettle).

My eldest didn't start to sleep through until he was 2.5 and even then it was sporadic. Some kids are like that. And yes. Sometimes he wanted milk. He's 28 now and sleeps like a log. But at the time it's hard. Op it's one night a week. And you've said you're not tired and you've actively made a joint decision to patent like this. Presumably your husband knows how you feel?
If this is the choice you've both made and he won't stop his hobby and you still want to pursue this parenting style then I think you're going to have to suck it up and go through this until your dc grows out of this phase. Not much else to be done unless someone changes something!

18 now not 28