Husband's down time

[Pondlife87]

We have a 16 month old daughter who is a terrible sleeper.
Both my husband and I work. He does 5 days a week and I do 3.
We did split maternity. When i was off i did all the night wakings. When he was off we shared it as past 3am she will not settle without feeding (she is breastfed).

Now we are both back at work he does the first shift (10.30-2.30) and i do the second shift (2.30-7) of her waking. She tends to end up in bed with us from about 4 as otherwise I'm up every 30 minutes settling her. We've tried having her in bed with us all night, but she just wants to feed constantly if I'm near her and won't accept Dad.

So- i get to my point. Dad has always been a night owl and stays in his workhouse every Friday until 3am doing projects. This means we have to swap the shifts. This means I am up between 10.30-3 resettling her. Then when he comes to bed, because she needs to feed I am awake hourly resetting her and she will only accept me. Then because he has been up until 3am he gets the lie in. I get the lie in the following day.
I have expressed i am unhappy about it as I get next to no sleep all Friday night because i essentially do both shifts. He argues that lots of men/ women go out every weekend.
However i do not think it is ok to go out every weekend until 3am if you have a child, so i don't see why this is different?
I've suggested he can go out but take the baby monitor to do thr first shift and he said no. I suggest he go out and come in earlier at say 12/1 and he said no.
Am i being unreasonable with my requests?
Is there a middle ground? Can you offer any otjer solutions?
Please note this is not a request for advice to help baby sleep better. I've tried everything haha.

@Bluntness100

16m is still very young and its perfectly normal (if exhausting) for them to wake a lot

Can you post a link to any evidence to back that up? My child was ff and went through the night at eleven weeks. Waking constantly through the night is not a positive, no matter how much you support breastfeeding so wish to pretend it is.

I am feeding a nearly 3 year old. Whatever a child wants to do is normal. No evidence required

We do alternate nights so every other night we get a full nights sleep

I am still breastfeeding at 22 months and he doesn’t need it during the night. We also paid for a sleep consultant we didn’t agree with sleep training so were given some great techniques which helped him sleep through...most nights

OP, your baby is only 16 months, night wakings are completely normal. You don't need to train your baby, babies are not robots, they are little people. The problem here is not your baby, the problem is your DH being a selfish arse.

What downtime do you get? None probably? He needs to start doing his fair share of parenting.

If he wishes to stay up until 3am on a Friday night, fine but only if he is pulling his weight. However, he does not get a lie in. He gets up with the baby at whatever time baby wakes up at and you get the lie in. I am disgusted on your behalf that he thinks it is acceptable to have a lie in when he's been staying up late doing a hobby while his wife has had no sleep at all and has to get up as normal the next day. What a selfish fucker. The lie ins stop.

He also needs to be on duty before 3am so that you can still get sleep. You can't be expected to just have a few hours lie in on a Saturday morning every week because you're awake all Friday night. He can have his hobby time when baby is sleeping longer at night and not waking up as much but for now, no, he does his fair share.

Do all you people preaching, yes PREACHING to me about how I need to get my baby to sleep through the night realise that your ramblings are based on post Victorian behavioural theory that has now been disproved, BUT is still applied to children because the medical industry has not yet caught up?
Your opinions have no grounding in science and have no evidence base behind them. But I'm expected to listen to your unwanted advice over the scientific research I have read?

I do NOT want your advice on this. I do NOT want your opinions. I am NOT exhausted, I said I have one night where I get no sleep because husband doesn't do his share.. My baby is NOT exhausted. She is developing perfectly fine thank you very much. You are wasting your precious time as I am not even going to consider listening to your unsolicited and uninformed advice.

I appreciate those of you that asked me questions in a bid to help and I hate to be rude by not answering as I am sure you meant well, but with all due respect I did not ask for your help about her sleep. I asked another question.

And to those of you claiming I don't do half my share because I only work 3 days a week. You need to check your internalised misogyny, and wake up and smell the patriarchy! I can't believe in a modern age WOMEN still think like this!

Thank you to those who have supported and backed me during this - I really appreciate it, especially @VeniceQueen2004 and @Pumperthepumper as I've noticed you've come to my aide a fair few times.

It might be normal for some 16 month children to feed all night and not sleep but 16 month olds also need good quality sleep and a range of solid food.

I also had 4 DC and breastfed them all for an average for 2 years each. 2 of the 4 needed to be actively might weaned after 12 months and we were all happier for it, including the babies who actually got a good chunk of night time rest.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for your DH not to buy into night time “shifts” for a 16 month baby who feeds all night. It’s also fine for your and your DD to continue but there are other options.

@Pondlife87 your baby's sleep is normal. Multiple night wakings is totally normal. All normal infant behaviour. She will eventually sleep longer but for now, you just need to figure out how to get through it and your husband is the problem.

Cross post!

Ok, crack on then

@PlanDeRaccordement

On what basis are you saying “biological norm”? Are you babyologist?

On the basis that we are primates/mammals and no other primate behaves like we do to their young. They don't push them out to sleep on their own when they are infants, they don't abruptly curtail breastfeeding, they don't sleep train. All those interventions are human inventions to subjugate the normal behaviour of babies to our artificial and unnatural way of life.

Sure you can do it; but there is no reason why you should.

Shouting at ppl won't help, you want him to do his share then you do your share simple split everything including working, 🙄 he works 5 DAYS, see we all can do that on little sleep and you begrudge him a night to unwind and do his hobby you have 2 extra days to him, to do this as you can pop your child in nursery or nap during the day so i find really the unfairness is on you in this oh so modern day your choice what you do his choice for him he does more then most men and if you don't care about advice you should not ask simple

@nolongersurprised

It might be normal for some 16 month children to feed all night and not sleep but 16 month olds also need good quality sleep and a range of solid food.

I also had 4 DC and breastfed them all for an average for 2 years each. 2 of the 4 needed to be actively might weaned after 12 months and we were all happier for it, including the babies who actually got a good chunk of night time rest.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for your DH not to buy into night time “shifts” for a 16 month baby who feeds all night. It’s also fine for your and your DD to continue but there are other options.

The OP has said her DH doesn't want to night wean yet either - he just doesn't fancy pitching in.

yes he also works 2 extra days to the op so it would never be fair

@PlanDeRaccordement

So it is not impossible for baby bottle tooth decay to happen especially if there is unswallowed breast milk in a baby's mouth. As AAP points out, “Breastfeeding infants who fall asleep while nursing with unswallowed milk in their mouths are also vulnerable to tooth decay.”

So feeds should be completed before baby goes to sleep then. Not exactly the same as saying they should be stopped completely is it?

My child was ff and went through the night at eleven weeks
What a crappy thing to say to a mum who is struggling with sleep deprivation!
Also meaningless. My twins were ff, they did not sleep through at 11 weeks. At 11 weeks they woke 3 hourly for food. They slept through at around 6 months and by slept through i mean meh, mainly. At 9 months were just dropping a midnight nightfeed

@nolongersurprised

So i am expected to accept a whole lot of unwanted advice essentially criticising my parenting choices, but when I do the same back I am cross and need to crack on?

And i will crack on. I always intended to. I never asked for you to help me to stop having to 'crack on'.

@Pondlife87

You're very welcome. People just don't get it. I did struggle with tiredness with my bf baby (I was doing all the wakings as DP didn't approve after a certain point) and until I found my tribe I felt so alone as if I ever mentioned it I immediately got people jumping down my neck like this telling me to wean her. So it gives me the rage seeing people piling on here when you specifically said you were not interested in messing with her sleep.

Hope you get s solution. I will say your DH being on board with your parenting approach and doing as much as he is is not to be sniffed at - he's in the wrong on this one issue, for sure, but see if you can't find a way to get what you need without it being a battle or an ultimatum. Once you lose your partner's support responsive parenting can be pretty tough going and he sounds like a pretty good egg overall.

All the best!

@Hamm87

Shouting at ppl won't help, you want him to do his share then you do your share simple split everything including working, 🙄 he works 5 DAYS, see we all can do that on little sleep and you begrudge him a night to unwind and do his hobby you have 2 extra days to him, to do this as you can pop your child in nursery or nap during the day so i find really the unfairness is on you in this oh so modern day your choice what you do his choice for him he does more then most men and if you don't care about advice you should not ask simple

But there's no indication she's putting the child in daycare so she can nap, drink spy lattes or binge Netflix, and YOU might have napped with a 16 month old and bloody well done but I wouldn't have had a chance. They both are busy 7 days a week. He gets a full night off. She doesn't. If he doesn't want to work outside the home 5 days then he needs to speak to OP about it, they can reduce childcare and he can have her all day.

he does more then most men that reflects badly on other men for not doing their fair share, not favourably on ops do for doing his. His fair share should be the expectation

@hamm87
Please stop making assumptions about my life. I cannot 'pop her' in nursery as we can't afford it. I cannot 'nap when she naps' as she naps for a total of 30 minutes. So ny 'two days off' are full days of me chasing her around, or carrying her whilst doing housework.
And 'he does more than most men' is not an excuse. It's a way to hold up the patriarchy.
I also do not begrudge him time to unwind.....i feel it is unfair when it is at my expense. What an utterly sweeping statement.
I am happy to receive advice that 1. I asked for and 2. Isn't sexist.

@venicequeen2004

I think it's bizarre that because we have chosen this route we aren't allowed to complain about it?
Oh I know he is a good egg overall. I think this is why I'm so frustrated by the situation, as I'm disappointed in his reaction. Thanks again x

Also I will just remind people - some people need less sleep than others, and that is no less true of babies than of adults. My DD sleeps through now but only for about 10 hours tops (no naps). She's not overtired. She wakes up bouncing. She is also highly intelligent (not just my proud eyes, verdict of nursery using the EYFS) so in no way "damaged" by her dodgy sleep patterns when small and limited sleep now. She didn't come with the manual; she's just her own person.

@Pondlife87

Ok..i have tried everything to get to her sleep except sleep training and nightweaning.

18 months is hugely different to 16 months because around this time there is language explosion which means you can communicate the decision to your child, and have them be part of the conversation to wean.

There is also plenty of evidence to suggest night waking is normal. I will find some and post some later.

I don't expect him to 'wrap hobbies up by 10.30' i just don't think it is fair to be up until 3am every week.

Baby will not take a dummy, a bottle or a cup.

I am actually quite sad that instead of answering my question people have taken this as an opportunity to criticise my parenting choices because i didn't choose your path. Please be assured that all my decisions are research based and not just a whim. What a wonderfully supportive community this is(n't).

Just a question, but if baby will not take a dummy, a bottle or a cup atm what will change in 8 weeks time?

[quote Pondlife87]@hamm87
Please stop making assumptions about my life. I cannot 'pop her' in nursery as we can't afford it. I cannot 'nap when she naps' as she naps for a total of 30 minutes. So ny 'two days off' are full days of me chasing her around, or carrying her whilst doing housework.
And 'he does more than most men' is not an excuse. It's a way to hold up the patriarchy.
I also do not begrudge him time to unwind.....i feel it is unfair when it is at my expense. What an utterly sweeping statement.
I am happy to receive advice that 1. I asked for and 2. Isn't sexist.[/quote]
She sounds really sleep deprived. Could you speak to a sleep consultant about how best to help her sleep more solidly (30 minute bursts will not be doing her any good)? You can tell them you don’t want to sleep train and they should still have some advice that will help your daughter get some quality sleep.

I cannot 'nap when she naps' as she naps for a total of 30 minutes. So ny 'two days off' are full days of me chasing her around, or carrying her whilst doing housework. But that is on you in your quest to disprove 'post Victorian behavioural theory' 🤣🤣. His actions suggest he is not so eager to do this anymore. I'd be down the shed with him at this stage.

@Pondlife87

I know right, as if this forum isn't heaving with mum's letting off steam about their issues with the children they have chosen to have!!

Ah well. Once you find your team of breastfeeding, sling-wearing, well-read mams it's a lot easier. I never feel out on a weird parenting limb any more because I have friends who get it. I hope you do too!

Good luck x

Here’s some more unsolicited advice - after the age of one year children who breasted continuously overnight often aren’t as interested in food during the day. The iron in breast milk is beautifully absorbed cf formula but is dependant on maternal stores and the baby’s own stores (laid down ante natally) will have run out, usually at about 6 months in a baby who was term and well with a normal birth weight.

Breast milk is an insufficient source of sole iron at this age and low iron is associated with frequent night restlessness and wakings. If your DD’s solid intake isn’t great I’d suggest getting this checked and aiming for an serum ferritin of about 50.