DP lying - help me figure this out

[diannetol]

Hi all. NC as outing - not posted this topic before so this might be long to not dripfeed.

For background: around 4 months ago, I finally caught DP out lying. I'd been suspicious for ages but made to feel like I was completely wrong. He was using an anonymous online chat room (not one ever listed on here) to speak to people. Whilst you can speak innocently on this I knew what he'd use it for which he admitted, speaking to other women. It's a childish weird website and he gave me his username once caught and login (i'd have never found this out) and I read it all. It was quite boring, a bit like an alter ego. It wasn't emotional and I knew it hadn't become physical so I am still deciding what to do because I was willing to try and see if we could heal - however I was very hurt. I only found out because he was caught with solid evidence, before he just denied anything circumstantial.

Now, I need to tell this story which is a bit TMI but is the only way to explain.
Last night DP said he was horny, I wasn't but it was also whilst we were watching TV and I said I will be later. He then went for a shower and I said 'don't wank' because I thought we could instead have sex. He took a while in the shower so I kind of knew and asked him when he returned very casually but he said he hadn't. I then went to brush my teeth and noticed there was baby oil on the toothpaste. I then just knew - it's the only reason he'd ever touch baby oil. He immediately denied it. Almost laughed AT ME and then even said 'if you want to believe I did then sure I did'.

He eventually admitted he did wank but said he never used baby oil "why would I, in WATER that doesn't even make sense" I explained how it's the opposite actually. It took an argument later for him to actually admit the baby oil usage. It then became a horrible argument, he said he wanked because "he would rather wank than have sex with me" and how he's not attracted to me (because of my personality - he is very physically attracted to me - he didn't say this but he can't deny it as it's always something he remarks on).

We now aren't talking and I don't even know why he feels so morally right in this instance. I'm angry and I'm upset. I don't care that he did what he did, I care that he lied. I cared that after everything, I have to still catch him out and be relentless with my questioning to get the truth. If he had just been honest when asked I'd have actually trusted him more.

So this is where I need your advice, ignoring LTB or whatever, I still have to live in a house with him, we just bought this house and it was very expensive. We would struggle to sell. So how do you handle a man in this situation?

When he lies and is caught out, he laughs almost like a psycho, he then makes the argument not about what he's done but about anything else and all my flaws, he then tries to say things to hurt me. What is the best approach? I used to think that it is to say 'look I don't care, just be honest' but that didn't work! I'm quite numb to him saying anything mean so it doesn't really hurt me.

A long time ago a therapist (with an ex partner) told me that the issue is if you speak to someone like you're a parent, they'll respond like a child. I'm wondering if that's applicable here.

Overall, I don't think what he did was a big deal (last night, not the thing 4 months ago) but it was the lying. Which I've explained to him. He almost deflects it because I'm sure he knows it's wrong. he then says how he only lied to avoid an argument.

I would find it humiliating to be interrogated about masturbation the way you did him. You just wouldn't leave the subject alone so I'm not surprised you've fallen out. But that aside, it just doesn't sound like a good relationship. Sometimes better to be on your own for a while while you continue to work through things. Your therapist sounded good - like you were making progress with them after stuff that's happened to you in the past.

Get this moved to Relationships OP. You'll get a more balanced response.

Your relationship has moved from team-mates to opponents.

I'm not going to hang around and argue with people. I've given my perspective.

he said he wanked because "he would rather wank than have sex with me" and how he's not attracted to me (because of my personality - he is very physically attracted to me tells you all you need to know.

It's one of those classic cases where OP posts about a completely dysfunctional, unsalvageable relationship, in which one person plainly views the other with complete contempt, then says 'but I don't want to hear LTB!'.

So, ok then OP. What are you going to do? And how do you think you're going to come out of it feeling about yourself and about how relationships work?

I then went to brush my teeth and noticed there was baby oil on the toothpaste

Please tell us more about this !

@lottiegarbanzo

And you should ask to have this thread moved to relationships, where you'll attract more insightful, helpful posters.

Yes do this, OP.

He's a nasty piece of work. You're spending your time trying to catch him out. You're not friends anymore, your enemies. Everything is to see who wins.

The house situation will suck and it'll need to be resolved somehow, but this relationship isn't going to get any better. You can't force it to keep going because you've bought a house. He's already chatted to other people. You're fighting over stupid things and they dissolve into hostile, horrendous arguments.

Do yourselves a serious favour and give all this up, focus on how to both leave this with as little damage as possible. This is completely dysfunctional and there is nothing at all to try and rebuild it from.

I see the ‘leave him now’ brigade are out in force!!!
You both need to have a good open talk to see where you both are - there is some mistrust between you but truthful communication is key to see if you can move forward. Be kind to one another. I hope it can work out for you

@lottiegarbanzo

And the sex and wanking thing was all about him having to have things (including you) wholly on his terms and in a way that allows him to maintain his mental detachment from you - to view you as a body only, without having to engage with you as a person (who he despises).

He was up for it NOW. He was already in the right mental space and wanted to do the deed physically, impersonally, while he was there. By saying 'yes, I'm up for it later', you intruded and interposed yourself, as a person (who he does not like), into his mental space, so ruined his desire.

So, he sloped off to the shower, where he could think his way privately back to where he wanted to be and got on with it there.

He absolutely did not want to discuss ANYTHING about his sex life with you, who - as he's actually told you - he regards as just a desirable body (with a horrible person attached).

What should he have done? Refrained for relieving himself until the op was up for it?

Faced with an interrogation about doing something normal, I would prefer the self pleasure tbh and if pissed off enough yup I will tell that person. Tough if they don't like it, my body, my choice. If the other person is up for it at the time great, if not, oh well.

For some people, there's a certain stage of arousal that when unleft becomes painful.

@lottiegarbanzo

I'm not going to hang around and argue with people. I've given my perspective.

he said he wanked because "he would rather wank than have sex with me" and how he's not attracted to me (because of my personality - he is very physically attracted to me tells you all you need to know.

It's one of those classic cases where OP posts about a completely dysfunctional, unsalvageable relationship, in which one person plainly views the other with complete contempt, then says 'but I don't want to hear LTB!'.

So, ok then OP. What are you going to do? And how do you think you're going to come out of it feeling about yourself and about how relationships work?

I know I need to LTB that's why I said not the point of the thread.

I want to know how you handle a man who acts like this about ANYTHING when he gets caught out in white lies.

It depends on the white lie.
Your own parents probably did it to you for years - Santa and the Easter bunny.

The thing is there's no point discussing 'how to have a happy sex life', as if they could just tweak things a bit (sorry, bad pun!) and all will be well, because that's not what this is about. They have a horrible, toxic relationship with no love or respect. That's a much bigger issue than how many times an evening he can get it up, or how they can get themselves in the mood together.

I think it’s the bit after that, OP, when you then go in on him for lying. He may have felt he could have done both wank and sex but didn’t want to say and got overly defensive. I don’t understand why you needed to go “oh so did have a wank?” Or whatever as that immediately would get his back up.

Anyway, I think you just need to have a rational conversation out of the moment about what happened and why the lying was hard for you. You should admit what you did instigated the argument but also say what he said was hurtful and find out if he means it. Don’t let it escalate into an argument but if it does step back and bring the level down or take a break but say you would still like to talk about it calmly because it is fixable. You both have to just acknowledge your own behaviour.

Am I the only one distracted by the mechanics? How did he still have baby oil on his hands after the shower? Why didn't it wash off? Why didn't it dry when he towelled himself before washing his teeth? Why did he even need baby oil in the shower?

Oh ok OP, I did misunderstand your intent then. If what you're looking for is coping mechanisms to help you survive as housemates until you can find a way out at a better time, then I suppose polite detachment is the way to go. Separating your life from his, your plans, motivations, feelings etc but being pleasant and companiable for the time being.

As for the lying, the obvious answer is to assume he will lie, so don't set up scenarios in which what he says really matters much, one way or the other. Then if he does lie about trivial things, just let it wash over you, so to speak. Don't press him on it. Smile, nod and move on.

The relationship is over. It sounds like your best option is to live like flatmates until you can afford to sell or one can buy the other out.

Stop trying to catch his lies. There is no good outcome for you there, especially as you are trying to catch him in cheating and such like but you also have no intention of following that up by leaving him. Pointless aggravation for you both. Just stop.

Maybe he couldnt wait until later on? felt horny there and then! Really being interrogated by you saying "Right Im ready now!" rather than maybe watching your show later on? Perhaps next time see if you can watch it on catch up .Playing detective with Baby oil is a little weird really!

You've both become coarsened in the way you speak to each other.
You've lost the mutual respectful boundaries and civility that usually oils the wheels of relationships, that's if it was there to start with.

It seems to me it's become a competition between you to out cringe each other.

Isn’t it like him saying “I’m hungry, are you hungry” and you reply “I will be after this (in half an hour) let’s go to a restaurant. Put the biscuits away. If you eat biscuits you won’t be hungry later”. Then you go to get ready and find a load of biscuit wrappers in the kitchen. He denies it, despite the only logical reason for the wrappers being he’s stuffed his face in the last half hour. And no he doesn’t fancy a nice meal anymore. OP is slightly put out but happy to go without, she isn’t berating him for eating but isn’t happy about the lying. In this case this man doesn’t eat a meal if he’s spoilt his appetite with biscuits, some men can enjoy a meal after snacking, but not this one clearly. And to top it off he tells OP “I’d rather eat biscuits in the kitchen on my own than spent time in a restaurant with you because you’re so horrible”.

I’ve actually had the food example happen, not exactly the same and he wasn’t horrible. It was annoying as I was looking forward to it and was hungry! We’re also pretty open about sex so talking about wanking is normal, but it’s not for a lot of people.

I don't like the chat room thing from him from him, but I also think you are awful. If he is horny, he can do what he wants with his own body. If you want sex, shut off the damn TV.

So, you said:

I have to still catch him out and be relentless with my questioning to get the truth. If he had just been honest when asked I'd have actually trusted him more.

I'd say, you know you don't trust him. Accept that. He doesn't tell the truth. You know that. So, you don't need to have any of these conversations, where you attempt to discover the truth.

'If you say so' is a very useful phrase.

@Laundrywoman

You've both become coarsened in the way you speak to each other. You've lost the mutual respectful boundaries and civility that usually oils the wheels of relationships, that's if it was there to start with.

It seems to me it's become a competition between you to out cringe each other.

Hilarious.

Gosh OP, bin him.

He's a load of shit! Wanks and then can't perform for the rest of the night. Useless.

He's a nasty, lying shit. I mean really getting nasty over being asked why he covered the toothpaste in oil shite.

If I had found my DH on chat sites he would have been binned there and then. You don't trust him, because you can't. He is a liar. He is useless. He is full of shit.

Bin him. You don't need to be in a relationship with him to buy a house together. Carry on paying for it together until you can sell or one of you can buy the other out.

I’m sort of going against the grain here but what is the urgency in relieving himself. It’s not like he needed a massive shit (sorry to be crude).
I can’t get past the notion that it’s ok for him to say he’s up for sex because he’s horny and then decide he can’t wait etc but not for her to say I’m not ready yet..?
It’s more likely that the OP would get a better response if the conversation was a bit less nudge nudge and he wasn’t going to lie about everything and anything but presumably the relationship isn’t like this. Could you work on this OP?
I don’t see the OP as being the wank police, nor anyone who would say not just yet but later and saying don’t wank with a view to sex later, because it is categorically different to have someone who controls these matters on an ongoing basis rather than something that sounds to me like it was misunderstood by both.
Sure don’t “interrogate” but equally learn to discuss sex more openly?

What I do in the shower alone is my own private business, I'd hate to be interrogated and probably lie to! Jeez!

@titnomatani

Erm, am I the only one who doesn't understand the link between the toothpaste and baby oil? 🤔

I'm RTFT just to try to find out!