DP lying - help me figure this out

[diannetol]

Hi all. NC as outing - not posted this topic before so this might be long to not dripfeed.

For background: around 4 months ago, I finally caught DP out lying. I'd been suspicious for ages but made to feel like I was completely wrong. He was using an anonymous online chat room (not one ever listed on here) to speak to people. Whilst you can speak innocently on this I knew what he'd use it for which he admitted, speaking to other women. It's a childish weird website and he gave me his username once caught and login (i'd have never found this out) and I read it all. It was quite boring, a bit like an alter ego. It wasn't emotional and I knew it hadn't become physical so I am still deciding what to do because I was willing to try and see if we could heal - however I was very hurt. I only found out because he was caught with solid evidence, before he just denied anything circumstantial.

Now, I need to tell this story which is a bit TMI but is the only way to explain.
Last night DP said he was horny, I wasn't but it was also whilst we were watching TV and I said I will be later. He then went for a shower and I said 'don't wank' because I thought we could instead have sex. He took a while in the shower so I kind of knew and asked him when he returned very casually but he said he hadn't. I then went to brush my teeth and noticed there was baby oil on the toothpaste. I then just knew - it's the only reason he'd ever touch baby oil. He immediately denied it. Almost laughed AT ME and then even said 'if you want to believe I did then sure I did'.

He eventually admitted he did wank but said he never used baby oil "why would I, in WATER that doesn't even make sense" I explained how it's the opposite actually. It took an argument later for him to actually admit the baby oil usage. It then became a horrible argument, he said he wanked because "he would rather wank than have sex with me" and how he's not attracted to me (because of my personality - he is very physically attracted to me - he didn't say this but he can't deny it as it's always something he remarks on).

We now aren't talking and I don't even know why he feels so morally right in this instance. I'm angry and I'm upset. I don't care that he did what he did, I care that he lied. I cared that after everything, I have to still catch him out and be relentless with my questioning to get the truth. If he had just been honest when asked I'd have actually trusted him more.

So this is where I need your advice, ignoring LTB or whatever, I still have to live in a house with him, we just bought this house and it was very expensive. We would struggle to sell. So how do you handle a man in this situation?

When he lies and is caught out, he laughs almost like a psycho, he then makes the argument not about what he's done but about anything else and all my flaws, he then tries to say things to hurt me. What is the best approach? I used to think that it is to say 'look I don't care, just be honest' but that didn't work! I'm quite numb to him saying anything mean so it doesn't really hurt me.

A long time ago a therapist (with an ex partner) told me that the issue is if you speak to someone like you're a parent, they'll respond like a child. I'm wondering if that's applicable here.

Overall, I don't think what he did was a big deal (last night, not the thing 4 months ago) but it was the lying. Which I've explained to him. He almost deflects it because I'm sure he knows it's wrong. he then says how he only lied to avoid an argument.

A long time ago a therapist (with an ex partner) told me that the issue is if you speak to someone like you're a parent, they'll respond like a child.
You asked whether he'd wanked, and then told him you knew he'd wanked because you'd found traces of baby oil on the toothpaste. This is how I might have spoken to my son when he was ten - not about wanking but e.g. if I thought he'd eaten the last biscuits, and then found crumbs in his bedroom. Actually, it is not even how I would have spoken to my son - I wouldn't tell him how I knew, as I wanted to leave the impression that I was simply omniscient.

You're not just talking to him like you're a parent, you're talking to him as if he is a naughty little boy who has eaten all the biscuits. That probably pisses him off no end. If it was him asking, I would encourage him not to try to hide it, but to confront your behaviour and tell you not to spy on his every tiny move in the privacy of his own bathroom.

@titnomatani

Erm, am I the only one who doesn't understand the link between the toothpaste and baby oil? 🤔

He had baby oil on his hands when he brushed his teeth.

Who are you? The wanking police? Tbh I can see why he lashed out at you... but it sounds like the relationship has deeper issues too.

I'm still trying to work out how the baby oil managed to cover the tube of toothpaste unless he cleans his teeth in the shower. But even then he'd need to dry his hands.

I agree with the PP, you're interrogation was as creepy as fuck and I expect quite humiliating for your partner. I'm not surprised he turned nasty. This is not a good relationship.

*your interrogation

He despises you and regards you with total disdain. He doesn't like you. He doesn't love you.

You can carry on living with him, as flatmates, for a while. You'll need to draw up your terms of engagement very clearly, as he will take the piss. Once your domestic barriers are erected, you can get on with your lives, separately together, for now. It will get far trickier when one of you finds someone else and wants to bring them home.

Your 'parent / child' analysis starts with him, not you. He's acting something like a defiant child but actually in the mode of a very arrogant adult. He's refusing to engage with you on an equal level - because he believes he's better than you, not your equal, not accountable to such an irritating, imperfect lowlife as he has cast you as being. You're trying to talk to him as one adult to another and he's refusing to respond accordingly because he does not accord you equal status to him. You're going 'WTF'? This forces his true personality and relationship analysis into the open and he teels you how much he despises you.

What do you think you're going to do?

Just trying to imagine a situation where I would ask/order this of my DH.

Nope, 27 years and it's never once entered my head.

Imagine if it was a bloke telling a woman this.

It is VERY weird and creepy.

I would feel violated if my partner interrogated me about masturbating to the extent that you did here. First demanding to know whether he had, then what he used to do it. Whether or not he'd masturbated was none of your business.

Telling him "don't wank" was obviously not lighthearted sexy banter, because if it had been you wouldn't have interrogated him afterwards - you'd have just left it.

The sexting women in chat rooms isn't great, and he shouldn't be doing it. But it doesn't excuse your behaviour.

You should split up, as the relationship isn't great, and you should work on your controlling tendencies.

I don’t think people are getting the ‘don’t wank’. It’s a ‘you don’t need to wank, I’ll be up for it later’. Which is what he presumably wanted as he’d told her he was horny. Otherwise he’d just go and have a quiet wank. Seems like a practical, normal exchange to me.

I think everyone gets it fine. That might be a reasonable conversation if both parties are comfortable with it, but clearly he wasn't.

What confirms that it is absolutely not normal is the resulting investigation into his self-fulfillment habits and interrogation until he owns up.

In that context, I don't think he was trying to deliberately hurt you OP- I think he was upset and angry and his reasons for not wanting sex (that he is uncomfortable with you) spilled out in a hurtful way.

I'm not a fan of LTB as a solution but this whole thing seems toxic. If you really think it is worth saving then you need couples counselling and you need to be open to changing the way you behave.

@lottiegarbanzo

He despises you and regards you with total disdain. He doesn't like you. He doesn't love you.

You can carry on living with him, as flatmates, for a while. You'll need to draw up your terms of engagement very clearly, as he will take the piss. Once your domestic barriers are erected, you can get on with your lives, separately together, for now. It will get far trickier when one of you finds someone else and wants to bring them home.

Your 'parent / child' analysis starts with him, not you. He's acting something like a defiant child but actually in the mode of a very arrogant adult. He's refusing to engage with you on an equal level - because he believes he's better than you, not your equal, not accountable to such an irritating, imperfect lowlife as he has cast you as being. You're trying to talk to him as one adult to another and he's refusing to respond accordingly because he does not accord you equal status to him. You're going 'WTF'? This forces his true personality and relationship analysis into the open and he teels you how much he despises you.

What do you think you're going to do?

What on earth are you talking about?

Are You reading a different thread? If anyone is regarding anyone with total distain its the op towards her dp.

And the sex and wanking thing was all about him having to have things (including you) wholly on his terms and in a way that allows him to maintain his mental detachment from you - to view you as a body only, without having to engage with you as a person (who he despises).

He was up for it NOW. He was already in the right mental space and wanted to do the deed physically, impersonally, while he was there. By saying 'yes, I'm up for it later', you intruded and interposed yourself, as a person (who he does not like), into his mental space, so ruined his desire.

So, he sloped off to the shower, where he could think his way privately back to where he wanted to be and got on with it there.

He absolutely did not want to discuss ANYTHING about his sex life with you, who - as he's actually told you - he regards as just a desirable body (with a horrible person attached).

And you should ask to have this thread moved to relationships, where you'll attract more insightful, helpful posters.

@titnomatani

Erm, am I the only one who doesn't understand the link between the toothpaste and baby oil? 🤔

lol, my assumption is he put oil in his hand ready but wanted to brush his teeth in the shower as he often does, so had to also put toothpaste on his toothbrush but his hand was already oily...

@lottiegarbanzo

And the sex and wanking thing was all about him having to have things (including you) wholly on his terms and in a way that allows him to maintain his mental detachment from you - to view you as a body only, without having to engage with you as a person (who he despises).

He was up for it NOW. He was already in the right mental space and wanted to do the deed physically, impersonally, while he was there. By saying 'yes, I'm up for it later', you intruded and interposed yourself, as a person (who he does not like), into his mental space, so ruined his desire.

So, he sloped off to the shower, where he could think his way privately back to where he wanted to be and got on with it there.

He absolutely did not want to discuss ANYTHING about his sex life with you, who - as he's actually told you - he regards as just a desirable body (with a horrible person attached).

You have serious Men hating issues.

Lottie - do you really think people have the right to dictate whether and when their partners masturbate?

Oh, is this AIBU? I thought it was Relationships. Same advice still applies.

I do agree that he might well have been wanking because he enjoys having autonomy over his own body. Not sure how that is bad?

Reverse the genders - the DW is horny, but doesn't really fancy sex later (it is entirely possible for this to be the case without the relationship being doomed). But her DH demands that she not wank as he wants sex later. Then later he interrogates her about whether she has or not, using her vibrator as 'evidence'.

Is that still ok?

@raddledoldmisanthropist

I don’t think people are getting the ‘don’t wank’. It’s a ‘you don’t need to wank, I’ll be up for it later’. Which is what he presumably wanted as he’d told her he was horny. Otherwise he’d just go and have a quiet wank. Seems like a practical, normal exchange to me.

I think everyone gets it fine. That might be a reasonable conversation if both parties are comfortable with it, but clearly he wasn't.

What confirms that it is absolutely not normal is the resulting investigation into his self-fulfillment habits and interrogation until he owns up.

In that context, I don't think he was trying to deliberately hurt you OP- I think he was upset and angry and his reasons for not wanting sex (that he is uncomfortable with you) spilled out in a hurtful way.

I'm not a fan of LTB as a solution but this whole thing seems toxic. If you really think it is worth saving then you need couples counselling and you need to be open to changing the way you behave.

he was definitely being nasty, he also went into how I am diagnosed with mental health issues and no one will ever want to be with me.

And does it seem like normal sexy banter from a loving partner?

No.

Op, ask to get this moved to Relationships. AIBU is for people to have a go, not offer constructive advice.

You’re not unreasonable. Living with a liar is soul destroying and turns you into someone you don’t want to be.

OP - yes, he was being nasty. But it was a reaction to your interrogation. Do you acknowledge that you were out of line on this?

The relationship is utterly toxic on both sides.

How about you, diannetol, how do you feel towards him? Am I totally misreading your OP when I think it says "Don't tell me to LTB as we've just bought an expensive house"? Are you staying partly/mainly due to financial commitments? Or do you like him?

You should leave him because he's a nasty piece of work really. All the spiteful jeering-style way of arguing - immature, vindictive... the bottom line is that he doesn't value or respect you. And he's at the first stage of cheating. So that's that. Do you want a loving, supportive partner to have your family with? Then don't have children with this guy.

So that done, what now? The first stage I would throw myself into is mentally detaching. And physically, too. You're already numb to his spite and meanness. Stop sleeping with him. Turn elsewhere - to your friends, to your family, to your hobbies. Start feeling what life could/would be like without him being a major figure in it, and definitely without him being someone who has emotional significance.

Be warned: as soon as you do this, as soon as he feels that YOU are leaving him behind and not needing him or valuing HIM, he'll be all over you like a rash. Because he does want the relationship. He does know that you are nice, and you are with him, and you will (so far) happily have sex with him and pick up his pants and buy houses with him and hopefully, have his babies so that he can chalk up all the usual life points. So he'll probably do a full 180 and show you that he actually does know what niceness and support and respect look like, he just can't usually be bothered to show them to you, and/or enjoys not showing them to you.

So you'll know for definite then that he's one to be thrown back.

The asking not to wank, discussing wanking was all something initiated by him originally as he finds it a turn on talking about it.

He made no move on me when he asked if I was horny, he was laying there and said he was, I said I will be later (once showered, we'd been gym and swimming so we weren't exactly smelling great), that's when the wanking became conversation.

At no point was his argument about me telling him not to etc.