Comments from the office clown

[PumpkinsAndBroomsticks]

I work in quite a male dominated environment. There is one particular person, who is known as the clown for practical jokes and outrageous behaviour. He is in his 50s and has been there for around 30 years and everyone just accepts it.

One on one he is fine and I get on well with him - he is actually quite friendly and a helpful person. But when he is around the younger men he completely changes it is as if he's a different person.

He will say things to me to amuse them and create laughs. For example, he asked when I will be getting pregnant and said he can 'help out' if needed. In a conversation about household chores, I said I hate cutting the grass and he said 'I will come and do it for you, and I'll do your bush as well'.

He never says these things when no one is around, it is just to rouse some laughter. I just shake my head but it's starting to make me uncomfortable. There is no HR department but even if there was, it would make things awkward if I made an official complaint. I spoke to a colleague about it and they said it's just him and that's who he is, I don't need to take any of it seriously. Is this something other women would laugh off / am I being over sensitive?

There are quite a few books about dealing with difficult bosses and colleague , they may help or have you tried tajing him to one side and having a quiet word because the probelm with making a formal complaint is you have to work with this guy afterwards and if he's been there that long then he's going to be pretty entrenched in the organisation. You also run the risk of isolating yourself if he's popular with other colleagues. Ultimately "office banter" is not acceptable if it is offensive or stopping others doing their job but they're not going to fire this guy over it so have a word with him and tell him how upsetting and inappropriate his comments are , most people respond to that, in my experience anyway and I've worked with some real odd people.

Apologies for typo's , on a train with a square wheel.

I wouldn't like this and I'm pretty thick skinned...... Its the sort of thing a female friend might say for a laugh. But we wouldn't dream of saying stuff like that to a bloke because it would make him feel singled out.

It isn't what he's saying as such. It's the fact he's saying it when you're a lone female. And. That isn't OK........chances are the other men are feeling uncomfortable too but don't know how to handle it.

If you get on with him in other ways a firm ' that way overstepped the mark. Make anymore comments like that and I'll be taking things further'. >

If not then you've every right to take this further. And stop being so damn polite. You don't owe him anything

@Manolin

Just call him Sid (James).

Or David Brent

I think you should speak to the man privately and tell him his remarks make you feel embarrassed; stress that he only does it in front of an audience for effect but you are not his 'straight man'.

You could also say you know he doesn't mean the (personal and vulgar) remarks to be taken seriously but that is no excuse.

Then carry on as normal and see how it goes.

Are you the only female or is the behaviour reserved for you only? He sounds like Colin from the Fast Show with a bit of added sexism and he certainly sounds like an insecure misfit. I think I would personally fight fire with fire or rather banter with banter (I hate that term, an excuse for bullying dressed up as humour) And I don’t mean smiley banter. It depends how comfortable you are with being cutting and direct. I’d go grey rock and then deadpan a response about his dick size or his long held virginity. At all other times I’d be friendly as usual and thank him when he’s been helpful etc but I’d show him up when he performs for an audience at your expense.

Of course what a grown up would do is tell him what’s acceptable in 2020 but if he hasn’t worked out how to behave in his fifties then it probably won’t work and he’ll probably wheel out the “I was only joking, don’t be so sensitive” defence so I’d opt for cutting him down to size publicly.

you are absolutely not being unreasonable. He's a twat and I can't believe he thinks it's ok to behave like that. How embarrassing for him (and your colleagues who condone his awful behaviour).

If you make "hilarious" comments about dick size then you're as bad as him imo.

I just remembered, with my brother, "stop showing off to your little friends!" used to work quite well.

You'd get a disciplinary and potentially sacked for either of those sexist comments where I work. You don't get to make some else feel uncomfortable at work. If he was making politically incorrect comments to someone with a protectected characteristic, would everyone say that was "just him" and ignore it ?

You say you like him and he's helpful. I'd just have a word saying that though you get on well with him the comments are sexist and insulting so could he kindly stop because you really don't want to have to take it further but you will if it carries on.

I have said 'that's really inappropriate so I am walking away as I dont want to be a part of this conversation' to similar things in the past

Speak to him first, tell him he has crossed a line. If that does not work then complain.

Ffs, this is in no way acceptable. It's not 'just who he is'. Innuendos to make you uncomfortable? Not okay. After he said the first innapropriate thing, he must have known you didn't like it. It's sexual harrassment.

I would speak to your manager and tell them it is unacceptable.

If you really don't want to escalate to someone more senior then would suggest calling him out in front of the young lads he's trying to impress.

Tell him you think it's really odd that he doesn't feel bold enough to make these bawdy jokes without an audience and that you don't like them. He'll feel like a prick in front of the guys he's trying to impress. If he keeps going with the bravado tell the younger lads that you hope they know that's not how you talk to female colleagues. Then leave.

It's the alpha male thing, isn't it? Maybe you could tell him when you're one on one that you don't appreciate his jokes in front of the young guys and ask him to stop. If he continues don't just shake your head, turn away.

He's showing those young men to disrespect women. It's so fucking thoughtless.

Can you understand how I feel?

Fuck that. He doesn't need to understand how she feels. He needs to understand that if you say shit like that, you can expect an official complaint and to get fired.

Honestly, some of the doormats/apologists on this thread.

By making some witty comeback, you are making it seem like it’s just banter. It isn’t. Tell him, in front of the others, that he is out of order and to stop it.

The comments are inappropriate. I work in male dominated environment too and have come across this too with a younger colleague and older male. Feedback was swiftly given to his line manager that this wasn't appropriate. I'm a bit longer in the tooth and more comfortable with discomfort and awkwardness so I'd go for a direct approach e.g replying "when you say that I feel uncomfortable, I'd rather you didn't make sexual innuendos towards me'. It's amazing how quickly calling out behavior like this has the impact of stopping it - especially in front of other people. People hide stuff like this under "banter" but it really isn't.

Can we please stop with the name-calling please.

Calling someone a "doormat" or "apologist" is not helpful in getting to the right solution.

People have different ways of dealing with things and advise accordingly. Just because you may disagree with an approach does not mean it is appropriate for you to call them names.

If you make "hilarious" comments about dick size then you're as bad as him imo

Yes I probably am, though I wasn’t advocating “hilarious” delivery - I would clearly not be joking, and for “dick size” read any personal comment on a level with his. I just think there are some male dominated environments where not biting back doesn’t get you anywhere, neither does appealing to his conscience by telling him how you feel about it. I work in a very respectful environment now but for many years I worked in a very male dominated industry and it a few years ago when this man’s behaviour was more accepted. I just found that briefly showing them the receiving end of what is actually bullying so that the audience is looking at them was the most effective way to shut it down. Depends on the characters I suppose and whether there is anywhere to go with your complaint (a decent line manager or sensible HR dept) which is probably the wisest option if it’s available (it wasn’t for me).

Joining in with smart ripostes will make him think you're OK with the 'banter'.

I'd just reply, deadpan, every time 'That is not appropriate.' If I got 'It's only a bit of fun!' I'd say 'We are at work. It is not appropriate.'

It doesn't matter why he does it; his ego problems are not your concern. He needs to speak respectfully to you.

I work mostly with men and the banter is fierce, but nobody is bullied with it.

@CountreeGurl

You'd get a disciplinary and potentially sacked for either of those sexist comments where I work. You don't get to make some else feel uncomfortable at work. If he was making politically incorrect comments to someone with a protectected characteristic, would everyone say that was "just him" and ignore it ?

Honestly? I think they would. There are some workplaces where BAME employees get bantered at all the time and they're expected to just put up with it or else they have a chip on their shoulder.

Imagine a scenario in which the OP is from an ethnic minority background and the colleague thinks racist "banter" is funny, is it up to the OP to think of a clever comeback? Is it up to her colleagues not to support the racist arsehole in being a racist arsehole? Or is it up to management to have at least half an eye on what goes on in the workplace that they manage?

If someone said something racist in my office, a) someone would instantly call them out on it b) someone else would report it to management c) the offender would be disciplined. And the same goes for sexist shit.

Why isn't that happening for aggressive sexist bullshit like that? I don't think it's just up to the OP to sort this out.

areallthenamesusedup, it's not 'namecalling', for heaven's sake.

People have different ways of dealing with things and advise accordingly. The 'advice' to the OP to talk to this man about how she feels, the comments about how it's 'just his age', the calls for her not to be 'that woman' etc, are worse than useless; they are casual sexism and misogyny and do not deserve to be flattered with the term 'advice'.

I think I’d just speak to him, when he’s on his own.