Comments from the office clown

[PumpkinsAndBroomsticks]

I work in quite a male dominated environment. There is one particular person, who is known as the clown for practical jokes and outrageous behaviour. He is in his 50s and has been there for around 30 years and everyone just accepts it.

One on one he is fine and I get on well with him - he is actually quite friendly and a helpful person. But when he is around the younger men he completely changes it is as if he's a different person.

He will say things to me to amuse them and create laughs. For example, he asked when I will be getting pregnant and said he can 'help out' if needed. In a conversation about household chores, I said I hate cutting the grass and he said 'I will come and do it for you, and I'll do your bush as well'.

He never says these things when no one is around, it is just to rouse some laughter. I just shake my head but it's starting to make me uncomfortable. There is no HR department but even if there was, it would make things awkward if I made an official complaint. I spoke to a colleague about it and they said it's just him and that's who he is, I don't need to take any of it seriously. Is this something other women would laugh off / am I being over sensitive?

When I was 21 my first job there was a bloke exactly like you describe and I ignored him. His comments got worse and worse and I just rolled my eyes and made smart come backs but didnt want to cause a fuss by raising it higher. Then another girl started and he made similar if not worse comments to her, he even invaded her personal space. I'll never forget how distraught she was. I remember being called in to SLT after they'd started an investigation/disciplinary and they wanted to check if he had said or done anything to me. Their faces were in such shock that I hadnt ever raised anything. And I felt so bad that I should have said something and hadn't. Dont ignore him. Dont give him the pleasure of comebacks. Raise it to management.

You ASR’s not being sensitive, it’s sexual harassment

If there is no HR then I would have a quiet word telling him his comments are sexist awful and totally inappropriate. I would also ask what he would feel if someone did that to his wife or daughter and then came home from work upset all the time?

If he continues I would have the same conversation, but starting it with i have privately asked you to stop with the sexual comment, but now am asking you in front of everyone, and mention again, but to the whole group ,how they would feel If a female member of their families came home upset because someone continually spoke to them in that way despite being asked to stop

Then i would say every single time , I have asked you to stop and walk away, keep a note and then make a formal complaint.

There is no need for such derogatory, sexist ‘jokes’ ’

@Haworthia

Start calling him Colin Hunt, after the “office joker” character in The Fast Show.

I was thinking of him too however he was just daft, seems like a scenario from the 80s.

Awful for you OP, good advice on here

@itsgettingweird

Depending on your confidence and how you think it would play out would putting him back in his box work?

"When you getting pregnant - told you I could help with that"

"And I've told you not even if last man on earth - when you getting your ears tested? Fraid I can't help with that"

"I'll cut your grass - then your Bush"

"No thanks. My gardener is much better at that particular job than I think you'd be!"

Sometimes fighting fire with fire works but you need to know in this case it'll have the desired effect and not make things worse.

You're right though - he's a knob!

OP - Please do not do any of the above. If you do, it could be seen as you engaging with the "Banter" and having fun with it.

Either speak to a manager or challenge him directly either in front of others or on his own.
There is no way you should have to tolerate this - and making it into a bit of banter as PP suggested will not help the situation.
Be calm
Be confident and
Be forceful
He needs to get a very clear message that THIS BEHAVIOUR WILL NOT BE TOLERATED

I will be 50 next year, and not thrilled about it.

No plans to go the full Colin hunt about it though.

I work with younger adults too.

You need to find the relevant person to report this to if it continues/escalates

There's always the "sorry, i don't get it - can you explain? " Do that enough times and get him to spell out that he's talking about your pubic hair or directly offering sex.
It might be excruciating but it'll be worse for him to have to explain his shitty comments.

No way would this be accepted in some places I've worked.

Yuk. It's quite pathetic that he's trying to impress the younger people in the office. If he's nice in a one to one capacity, I'd raise it with him privately that you don't like those comments and they make you feel uncomfortable. I know he's a bell end, but I still don't like trying to embarrass people. If you speak to him and he still does it, then you're well within your rights to make a sarcastic or withering response in return.

@DaughterX

There's always the "sorry, i don't get it - can you explain? " Do that enough times and get him to spell out that he's talking about your pubic hair or directly offering sex. It might be excruciating but it'll be worse for him to have to explain his shitty comments.

No way would this be accepted in some places I've worked.

I do that when men make kitchen jokes at me.

As someone who has been a manager for many years, I think this is appalling. There is no need to try to come back with witty comments, as that would keep the 'banter' going. A stern 'you do realise that that's sexual harassment and you'll be reported if you continue' would be the best approach in my opinion. It would certainly be a disciplinary offence in most workplaces and not having an HR department doesn't make any difference.

What your describe meets the qualification for what is sexual harassment at work

www.acas.org.uk/sexual-harassment

Your employer is obliged to protect you from it.

The fact the "clown" regards his comments as a joke or banter does not exonerate him; it's still an offence.

@ivfbeenbusy

Don't be "that" woman working in a male environment with a chip on her shoulder/something to prove/direct line to HR

Come back at him with a witty come back 🤷‍♀️ once he's been put in his place a few times he'll learn that he can't use you for laughs

.It's not a pissing contest for immature men. The very opposite.

@BubblyBarbara

Sounds like he is self conscious about his advanced age and is trying to keep himself socially relevant around the younger staff. I would feel a bit sorry for him if that was the worst example you could think of and perhaps have a bit of a heart to heart with him when he’s not near them. If he’s genuinely nice he will understand you find raunchier comments uncomfortable

FFS!

First, being in his 50s is not an advanced age.

And second, he may well want to keep himself socially relevant around younger staff, but why should that be at the expense of a female member of staff?

Don’t get involved in banter or attempt witty retorts as it’ll just egg him on.

A simple “John, that’s not funny. Please stop making such vile and sexist remarks to me” and walking away will put him back in his box.

Ideally do it while he has an audience.

Do the other guys join in too, or is it just him? If it's all of them, you have a toxic culture, and will find it hard to get them to stop (esp without any HR).

If it's just him, don't join in / look ashamed / try to match his 'wit'. Just tell him that what he's said is unacceptable, and not to do it again. There'll probably be an awkward silence, and that's fine.

“Look Bill, this is a bit awkward, but there’s something I think we should have a chat about. When you say x or y in front of the others I find it really upsetting and it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Can you understand how I feel? Please don’t do that again”. Or something along those lines....

Start there on a 1-2-1 basis and come back to us if that didn’t work!

I think it gone to be ‘that woman’.
I would do one of the following:
Are you looking for another job? That’s one way to be on your way out.
Jim,

If this thread was about racist remarks I hope posters wouldn't say to laugh along and out-banter the racist. Sexism is just as prejudiced and against the law as racism.

And seeing being in your 50s as an excuse is weird. The laws on equality in the workplace were introduced in the 70s - that's almost 50 years ago!

I don't think it's the victim's job to make the perpetrator feel okay about being a perpetrator in any context.

Ah that half posted and can’t be arsed to rewrite,
Basically call him out on it either in front of an audience or privately. I wouldn’t banter back if that is not a natural response to you. Let him raise his standards, don’t lower yours.

I've been in this position too. I told my manager it was happening and I didn't appreciate it, just so I has a record of that so of it ever escalated I couldn't be blamed of encouraging anything. I kept copies of all of our email exchanges, so I had a complete record of all our conversations and of me being not flirty whatsoever. And then the next opportunity i had I put it in email to him something simple along the lines of I don't appreciate you making comments like that, please keep your conversation with me professional. I felt comfortable saying it like that because I didn't feel intimidated by him at all - at that point. He completely backed down and all was fine but I kept my records for a while longer. Got to cover your back nowadays.

I was a bit worried afterwards that I'd pissed him off and he might get aggressive but that was the worst case scenario and it didn't happen.

@CalmdownJanet

Would you say "This is so odd, you are never like this when we are not in company, then you try act like the funny man in front of the lads, I told you I didn't like it but you still do it. Do you not feel a bit pathetic, I mean you look pathetic but do you feel it? " Take him down a peg or two in front of the lads might shut him up

Do this the next half a dozen times he behaves in this way and he’ll soon crawl back under his stone. Comments like that should not be acceptable in any professional environment.

Yawn, Yawn, Yawn, should do the trick.

When he next says something inappropriate in company just icily look him straight in the eye and say loudly "I don't understand what you mean". If he continues to say "it's a joke" or whatever, say "explain it to me".

Make him explain himself. Once these idiots are forced to explain their inappropriate so-called jokes, they stop being so funny. Never laugh or try to banter with people like this - they don't deserve to be let off that easily.

Short and sweet

"Don't speak to me like that, Dave" firmly

rinse and repeat

2 options

1. official complaint
2. have a word just say some of your jokes/comments cross the line and make me feel uncomfortable. direct and to the point

don't try and banter him back reading your post get the impression it not malicious and you said you like him and find him helpful . Think he might be socially awkward and says inappropriate things to fit in but gets it massively wrong .