To be sick of people assuming the PTA is full of a certain type of parent/social climbers etc

[PartyCat]

I am a single working parent with a very busy, stressful life, not your typical tiger-mom by any stretch. I am sick of the number of times I have read people on here saying something about the PTA type mums - I only did it because it is basic social responsibility and we need to raise money for our schools as they are on their knees, and no-one else would bloody well step up. There were only a handful of us (at best) who did all the heavy lifting, the rest would just turn up and everything already be organised, as if by the magic PTA pixies! I am sick of hearing about whatsapp groups about people complaining about something we did or arranged, or how it was handled. Then step the fuck up yourself and do it as it was the last thing I wanted or needed to do, and was extremely stressful. I know some schools may fit the stereotype that everyone seems to think about PTAs, but not ours. Even if the women (let's face it, it is usually women, not sure why men think they have nothing to do with their kids education) in your school do fulfil the stereotype you have, at least they are actually doing something to help their kids and YOURS. Stop carping from the sidelines and get off your arse and help out too. Or at the very least, please stop making massive assumptions about the types of people in them. Cheers!

When I was up for volunteering for the PTA at the school, I would have thought that maybe they'd have liked to have somebody who

was experienced with bookkeeping, particularly for charities,
a dab hand with poster, programme, ticket and price list design because I did that sort of thing in my previous job
was a qualified First Aider
had an accountant boss who had already offered his time for free just because I had volunteered (and thought it was a good thing, as he already provided his services for free to two charities and another school),
had experience of hiring and running professional PA (and mates who were up for the donating of equipment),
a partner who would be there anyway as he literally ran the hire company they used at full rates (he'd already said that he'd sort out the charitable donation/sponsorship for the future events) and, moreover, I was perfectly happy to do things like digging, building, gardening (part of my degree), sweeping up and working on stalls.

And I wasn't the sort of dickhead who expects to march in and be crowned Head of the PTA with all bowing at my awesomeness.

Apparently not. On the first thing I volunteered for, I was pointed in the direction of the kitchen and told to get the teas and coffees going, the stuff was in there somewhere. EIGHT HOURS LATER, I saw somebody from the PTA again. I had served hundreds of people on my own all day, not been to the toilet and not seen a single person checking on whether I was OK in there - or even still there in the first place.

And that person chucked a roll of bin bags at me from the door and said 'You've got ten minutes to clean your mess before the caretaker locks up' and walked away. After nine minutes, I came out with the bags and tried to find out where to put them. They fucking blanked me in favour of continuing their conversation about Ballet lessons. So I left the bags in the middle of the playground and walked out.

I didn't volunteer again. Or pass on any of the offers of help/sponsorship/FREE STUFF.

At another job (in a school), I refused point blank to work with the PTA head, as on her first day meeting me, she marched into my office, kicked my bag out of her way and sat in my chair, made comments about how 'these African children and their parents need people to tell them what to do' and then started telling me who had to have front row seats at the event and that my utterly compliant, auditable and efficient computerised payment recording and ticketing set up that I'd built from scratch was too difficult for her to understand and couldn't I just put the money in a drawer and leave it to her to count it out at the end.

Yes, I complained. Oh, how I fucking complained about that appalling woman. Fuck all done except for agreeing that I wasn't ever going to be in the same room as her ever again if they wanted the finances to be done legally. Still nearly ended up in a fist fight at the event because they were trying to take the ticket float by force from a TA volunteer to pay a dad who had 'kindly sold 15 crates of wine to us at a discount' in cash and I said NO.

Dh was a member of the PA committee when our dcs were at primary school. It went through several chairpersons during that time and it was very clear that the choice of chairperson had a huge impact on how well , or otherwise, the PA operated. At times, it ran really well and was truly for the benefit of all the children. There was one chairperson who thought it was their personal hotline to the head but thankfully they didn't last long. Unfortunately, they managed to offend just about every member of staff with their high handed attitude and it took a while to get things back on track once they were removed from the position. In terms of fund raising, they were very successful and were able to give the headteachers approximately £1, 000 per annum to be used to help children access certain activities who h they would not have been able to do otherwise. This was in addition to the money raised to pay for new books, playground equipment etc, etc.
As OP says, it is a thankless task and parents are quick to complain about things, or lack of, but are nowhere to be seen when it comes to actually helping out.

I've had two very different PTA experiences.

The first was for my son's preschool, lovely people, very inclusive, made me feel very welcome from the start and were open to everyone's ideas. Everyone felt valued and thanked. Happy for whatever help was offered.

Totally different at primary school, walked in and introduce myself, no effort to include me in conversation, they had asked for ideas on the invite email, but weren't actually interested in anything new. Lots of bitching about other parents and saying they would get the kids to volunteer their parents and tell them they better have a very good reason for refusing.

First event, I had the first 45mins slot, no one turned up to take over, didn't see the PTA chair, same for the mum on the stall next to me who had to leave after 1.5hrs, I told her to go and combined the stalls. I did 4-5 events a year as a volunteer - think of the children, but no way would I join the PTA.

I'd love to join the pta and contribute, I just don't seem to be wanted. Partly its made very hard by them organising meetings during working hours, which seems like a bit of an f-off to working parents.

I will never forget a meeting with the then Head who was telling me quite seriously that the staff couldn't help at a disco because they had kids at home!!

We pay our teachers to attend discos etc... Why in earth would they want to stay at work for free?!

It was a pretty thankless task but I got involved because I wanted to support my children's primary schools.

I helped out at lots of events and was chair for a couple of years. It is always the SAME parents who help out. I thought they were all lovely and I ignored any bitchy comments as they were always from parents who never helped at any event.

I had to resign when my working hours increased, guess what! No one wanted to take over, so a member of the school office ran it for a few years.

Our head was lovely, supportive and very grateful for what we did.

I guess my point is, I enjoyed doing it, I wanted to engage with my children's school and I just ignored any negativity. (But I do understand your points OP)

I know the PTA in schools ds attended were the alpha female type and very cliquey.

I also know some parents do kids in different schools who aren't like that.

As well as more who are.

But it's not as easy as saying "step up if you think you can do better".

I stopped offering to step up when every time I did offer my services I was either ignored or told no. Then you stand in playground whilst pta complain about how no one ever offers to help.
Truth was they wanted help - but only from those they deemed worthy of helping them!

Good people I know will do loads and will also accept help.

Others I know will accept help but take all the glory and will only allow things to be done their way.

I'm also member of my sons sports club commitee. You again get those who won't allow change (even for better) and challenge everything because "that's not how they do it".

Others who do so much for club but are happy to just do it without fanfare.

So yanbu to point out not everyone is like that and I agree. But ime there are certainly more like the stereotype about than there isn't!

Most teachers have pressure applied either subtly or overtly to attend many events. Do you really think they all want to do all the extracurricular stuff that OFSTED and many parents expect?

I'm well aware of the many pressures on teacher time, which is exactly why I think that headteachers need to think about work-life balance and that the PTA should run their own events and let the teachers focus on all of the more important stuff that they need to do. Surely a bunch of parents can manage to run a disco?

Perhaps your perspective depends to some extent on how much the PTA raises in your particular school, what it's spent on and how important that money is to the overall functioning of the school. Ours raises a respectable amount but it's a drop in the ocean in terms of the overall pot, and we can't spend it on what we really need, which is more staff. Yes, it's nice to have all of the ipads etc, but tbh, the school could function just as well without them.

@LaPoesieEstDansLaRue

Yanbu except for saying that men never get involved. At DD's Primary PTA several dads had significant positions in the PTA as well as mums.

I'm currently chair of a PTA.

The only dad who bothered trying to get involved clearly expected me to step down as chair in his favour. After a couple of meetings where I didn't step down nor gushingly promote him for the position, he disappeared and was never seen again (at least at our meetings).

He was so determined to be chair, he sent an email to me listing all the reasons I should step down for him. I thanked him for his email and wrote that I had no intention of stepping down any time soon. His reasons basically amounted to "I'm a man and therefore deserve it".

Wazzock.

@AlexaShutUp

Most teachers have pressure applied either subtly or overtly to attend many events. Do you really think they all want to do all the extracurricular stuff that OFSTED and many parents expect?

I'm well aware of the many pressures on teacher time, which is exactly why I think that headteachers need to think about work-life balance and that the PTA should run their own events and let the teachers focus on all of the more important stuff that they need to do. Surely a bunch of parents can manage to run a disco?

Perhaps your perspective depends to some extent on how much the PTA raises in your particular school, what it's spent on and how important that money is to the overall functioning of the school. Ours raises a respectable amount but it's a drop in the ocean in terms of the overall pot, and we can't spend it on what we really need, which is more staff. Yes, it's nice to have all of the ipads etc, but tbh, the school could function just as well without them.

You must have missed the part where I said the staff did not turn up for any event? It wasn't just discos. Any parent can and did run such events, however, we had some none PTA member parents where we were told that their children were not to be directed in any way by anyone other than staff.

What that actually meant in practice was that they wanted their kids to be able to run riot without any other parent getting involved.

We could have approached that in one of two ways: ban the child or have school staff on site. What would you have done?

Just because the monies raised are a 'drop in the ocean' doesn't mean they aren't valuable to the school. The PTA can't affect staff salaries, but the GB can redirect other income streams from the budget if they have the backstop of a decent PTA fund to fall back on.

Many of those Ipads you talk about so dismissively were literally lifesavers in the pandemic for families who could not afford them. Schools do not have a budget for that type of expenditure.

Similarly, many schools sent out lunchtime meals to children who would otherwise have gone without. Locally, they were funded by a joint enterprise of PTA funds and children's charities.

Many of us here are middle class and so our children had all the advantages that brings, others are very much less fortunate and many PTA's strive to bridge that gap.

I no longer teach, but I am required to network and socialise in the evenings (after working till 6 pm)to increase the profile of the company. I don't think it is too much to ask a teacher to be present at a couple of events a year on a rota basis.

Most, if not all, teachers happily do this, I did it, my son and his colleagues do it, however, my point related to a cohort of staff who had (collectively) backed off from supporting the school due to poor SLT management. When the headship changed the staff was much more amenable to supporting the PTA.

Every “committee” I’ve ever volunteered for has been cliquey, bitchy and downright unfriendly. I recognise the lack of helpers, we had this with playgroup and beavers and had to issue strong letters in both cases spelling out what would happen unless more volunteers were forthcoming. However, I found the members to be patronising, self important and so much better than the other mums, well they thought so anyway. Although they wanted new helpers, they weren’t really welcome, there was always a power struggle going on where everyone moaned about how much they were doing but they really didn’t want anyone else to do it instead in case they did I’d differently, or God forbid, actually did it better.

At ds school they overwhelmingly fitted the stereotypes

Private school. Maybe that’s why lots of parent events thought I would escape this is high school

Ours was full of people trying hard to do good. A little disorganised, but they all work and a significant chunk of them left recently as kids moved on. They weren't necessarily people I'd have sought out to be friends with, but I do tend to be a bit 'speak to anyone but do my own thing' so that's not necessarily a reflection on them either. I sometimes felt slightly on the outskirts but I put that down to the natural consequences of people being friends before joining, being part of the local community etc.

You must have missed the part where I said the staff did not turn up for any event? It wasn't just discos. Any parent can and did run such events, however, we had some none PTA member parents where we were told that their children were not to be directed in any way by anyone other than staff.

What that actually meant in practice was that they wanted their kids to be able to run riot without any other parent getting involved.

We could have approached that in one of two ways: ban the child or have school staff on site. What would you have done?

I'd have explained to the parents that there weren't any staff available, and that if they wanted their child to attend, they would either need to stay and direct them themselves or accept that others would direct them instead.

My point was that staff have to give up their time for other events such as parents' evenings, open evenings, curriculum evenings, concerts and productions, theatre trips, residentials etc. These are more important, and therefore should be prioritised. I can't think of any PTA events where staff are actually needed, though of course, it's lovely for the children if they choose to come along.

As for the ipads and all of the other things that the PTA buys for the school, I'm not denying the value of these, nor that they are very welcome. The ipads in particular may have been an unexpected bonus in recent months, although at our school, children in the most deprived families had to have paper work packs in any case as they did not have access to wifi at home. My point is merely that, in the grand scheme of things, the PTA funds are not significant enough to the school's overall budget to warrant dragging staff into work for each and every event that's happening, so the PTA should be prepared to get on with running the events themselves.

Of course, there may be some incredible PTAs out there which are raising vast sums of money which genuinely make a transformative difference to the educational opportunities on offer to children at a school. If that is the case, then fair enough - that would be amazing, and I take my hat off to those groups of parents for what they are managing to do. In my own experience, however, the PTA typically raises relatively small sums from events such as discos, school fetes, raffles etc, and although this money is of course helpful, it isn't really enough to make that much difference to anyone, so the over-inflated expectations about how much school staff should "support" these events seems unreasonable.

The other thing that I would add is that, while I think it's amazing that PTA funding has been used to provide ipads/lunchtime meals for deprived families during lockdown, I feel really strongly that it is actually the government's responsibility to ensure that the basic needs of children are met. What about schools with a high proportion of deprived families where the PTA cannot realistically raise significant sums of money because the families simply aren't able to contribute? This just increases the educational divide between rich schools in leafy, middle class areas and poorer schools where the need is much greater.

Personally, I would rather that people invest their time and effort in campaigning for proper, sustainable school funding to benefit all children. That's the problem that we need to address.

The PTAs at schools I attended and the one I was a governor of did not suffer from the so-called 'tiger mums', but were overwhelmingly female.

Our PTA clearly don’t want working parents as all meetings and events are in office hours. They would rather be martyrs than consider meeting in the evening as it isn’t convenient for them.

My DD school has no PTA (I think the teaching staff/TAs organise all this stuff unpaid). Friends say that they volunteer to do stalls at the fair etc and get ignored at the event. Other friends say they offered to set one up - about 5 years after the old one folded so a whole new generation - and were told "nobody's interested".

I found them cliquey, bitchy and unwelcoming. I helped the first 2 years whilst working full time, there was about 7 parents from the whole school that went to the meetings etc. I took an afternoon off to help with an activity for the kids and at the last minute told I wasn't needed - that was the end of that so I am not going to keep trying to be involved!!

What I can't understand about British schools is why there's a need for all that PTA fundraising. The school needs funds - OK, ask everyone to contribute £5 per month and there would be no need for cake sales and all the stress.
In our school the PTA seems to mainly consist of non-working mums who seem to be constantly inventing jobs for themselves. Happy to read it is not a universal experience though!

Ours is a classic clique. They all act like a fan group to the head, and seem to watch any school social media to swiftly shut down even the most innocent, merest slightly, possibly negative comment! Any questions are also shut down with a firm reprimand about how wonderful our head is.
The lead pta lady walks around with a beatific look on her face cradling her babies, which she also tells us via social media that she has 3 of! So if she can do it, why can't we.

What they buy, is also very niche and doesn't really benefit the school.

Empty, that's a good idea, and perhaps say what they are needing, how much it costs and how much x no of people need to contribute to raise it. Then people can also see if say they need another 10 donations.

But, if its not something you think the school needs, don't donate. They raised money for mud kitchen, brilliant, good idea but when I compared prices, they seem to have gone to the most expensive catalogue to buy it!

They also spent a fortune on the darkest, ugliest mural to be painted, 80s style.. No charm it cost over 1000.

I couldn't believe it. Again I wouldn't contribute for that.

YANBU. I was in the ptfa at my DC private prep school and some of the parents who weren’t on it were just the worst. Complaining about the finishing time of the summer fair, complaining about the quality of the external food vendors we brought in for the Xmas fair, complaining about the goodie bags we put together for the disco that we organised...I would just plaster a smile on my face and say “you would be SO welcome to join the committee and help out next year, we would really benefit from you input!”. And they would never help.

Most of the mums on the committee worked or had 3-4 small children at home. The people who never offered help invariably didn’t work nor had any other commitments that were visible to the naked eye (save for daily gym sessions, PT, nails and facials!).

@AlexaShutUp

You must have missed the part where I said the staff did not turn up for any event? It wasn't just discos. Any parent can and did run such events, however, we had some none PTA member parents where we were told that their children were not to be directed in any way by anyone other than staff.

What that actually meant in practice was that they wanted their kids to be able to run riot without any other parent getting involved.

We could have approached that in one of two ways: ban the child or have school staff on site. What would you have done?

I'd have explained to the parents that there weren't any staff available, and that if they wanted their child to attend, they would either need to stay and direct them themselves or accept that others would direct them instead.

My point was that staff have to give up their time for other events such as parents' evenings, open evenings, curriculum evenings, concerts and productions, theatre trips, residentials etc. These are more important, and therefore should be prioritised. I can't think of any PTA events where staff are actually needed, though of course, it's lovely for the children if they choose to come along.

As for the ipads and all of the other things that the PTA buys for the school, I'm not denying the value of these, nor that they are very welcome. The ipads in particular may have been an unexpected bonus in recent months, although at our school, children in the most deprived families had to have paper work packs in any case as they did not have access to wifi at home. My point is merely that, in the grand scheme of things, the PTA funds are not significant enough to the school's overall budget to warrant dragging staff into work for each and every event that's happening, so the PTA should be prepared to get on with running the events themselves.

Of course, there may be some incredible PTAs out there which are raising vast sums of money which genuinely make a transformative difference to the educational opportunities on offer to children at a school. If that is the case, then fair enough - that would be amazing, and I take my hat off to those groups of parents for what they are managing to do. In my own experience, however, the PTA typically raises relatively small sums from events such as discos, school fetes, raffles etc, and although this money is of course helpful, it isn't really enough to make that much difference to anyone, so the over-inflated expectations about how much school staff should "support" these events seems unreasonable.

I'd have explained to the parents that there weren't any staff available, and that if they wanted their child to attend, they would either need to stay and direct them themselves or accept that others would direct them instead.

Obviously, we did try that but that didn't fly as the parent/child both had issues that had to be taken into account. I am sure you are familiar with such things?

It was suggested we scrap the PTA due to lack of interest and instead have a levy on all families of around £25 per child. Some of the more strident voices suggested that if it wasn't paid the children of those families should be excluded from the benefits. I was horrified and eventually after a lot of discussions the PTA remained.

Personally, I would rather that people invest their time and effort in campaigning for proper, sustainable school funding to benefit all children. That's the problem that we need to address.

Are you involved in that?

I quite agree that the economic divide is alive and well and as a school governor I sit on several committees who are trying to have the issues related to that addressed. It is, however, a slow process, in the meantime, there are still needs to be met, so, as a school we get on and try to meet them.

Funding is so low we had to fund raise for paint and paint the loos ourselves. That was a fun weekend 🙄. We painted both girls loos then some parents queried why we hadn’t done the boys. Well there’s the paint love knock yourself out!