Children mustn't see grandparents until vaccine found?

[Witterywoman]

Now that the kids are back at school, SIL has said her kids must isolate from both sets of grandparents in case they give them Covid picked up at school, and this must continue until a vaccine is found. All 4 grandparents are over 70 but healthy, no health conditions to speak of. My parents are particularly upset and don't understand it. I don't get it either and don't intend to stop them seeing my kids.

Are we missing something?

so I'm not understanding the "if they get it SIL will feel dreadful' line.
it's the virus kills that kills, not the originator. if the 'victims'were aware of the risk but still wanted contact then so be it. contact can be as safely managed as possible. as Churchill said "there is nothing to fear but fear itself' and I think we should get a grip!

why do people think that grandparents are incapable of making their own decisions?

I'd be more furious than upset at being infantilised

@MaxNormal

why is it up to the Grandparents. If they get sick and die from this it will be the children and SIl javing to live with the guilt

The guilt would be alleviated by knowing that you respected their wishes and let them spend time with the people they loved, as per their choice as adults.

I cannot imagine the guilt of depriving a parent of their grandchildren only to have them die anyway during that time period. That would eat me alive.

That is not how guilt works. Guilt isn't controlled. It isn't logical. It can take hold of you and destroy your life. Iys not all about the Grandparents. Doing what is right for the kids is what needs to happen. A kid should not have to feel guilty for the rest of their lives because the grandparents are being selfish. I will admit this is hitting me extremely hard right now. My daughter's best friend has had to bury 3 of her grandparents who are just 5 to 10 years older than me because they were caught the virus through her being exposed at a school orientation meeting. She is absolutely destroyed. No child should have to suffer that

My nephew went back to school this week and caught Covid. He’s already seen grandparents, so dreading them being diagnosed with it too. There are no easy answers to any of it.

I think not seeing them at all is a bit extreme if you live nearby as there is no reason not to meet briefly in the garden or inside by an open door or for a walk. Obviously, if it is hours drive away it is more difficult as you would have to stay in a hotel just to see them briefly.

We are planning to remain socially distanced from my parents so meet inside by an open back door 2 metres apart or on walks as I am worried about the return to school. Summer was a lot easier as we could sit in the garden or conservatory with all doors open.

Unfortunately, it will be hard to see my in laws at they live miles away. Stayed with them over the summer when we had been isolating but not sure about now kids are back at school esp as they have medical conditions.

Christmas could be a bit miserable this year.

It's up to the grandparents.
When you're in your 70s, anything can bump you off. Imagine spending the last months away from your loved ones through fear of a virus that you're unlikely to catch, and then unlikely to die from. Of course we would feel terrible if grandparents caught it but surely you would also feel terrible if they died of something else and you didn't spend those last few months won't them.

@Nighttimefreedom

I would say it should be up to the grandparents to decide.

Presumably the grandparents will also accept not getting medical treatment/hospitalisation if they catch it then, won't they? After all, if it starts to spread again, that's the reality if the NHS can't keep up.

I think 'until a vaccine' is found is a bit extreme. However, I think its reasonable to keep a bit of distance for 6 weeks or so, until we know the full impact of children returning to school.

@RedskyAtnight

Why does she have to live with it if the GPs see the children at their request?

The GPs are requesting because they think the risk of them catching Covid is small. But it's still a risk. So if the children contract Covid from school, and pass it on to their grandparents and they die, SIL'll probably feel pretty guilty about this (I would anyway).

If you're driving a car, have an accident and your passenger dies, most people would feel bad about it, even if the accident wasn't their fault. Same situation.

But would that be enough to stop you taking passengers in your car?

I think in this situation it’s up to the grandparents to decide if they are happy with the level of risk. Everyone has lost all sense of perspective when it comes to the risk of Covid.

It’s up to your parents to decide, IMO. Mine lasted about 2 months of lockdown and then told us they weren’t being deprived of hugs with their grandchildren any longer and were accepting the risk.

I'm not belittling the dangers, guilt and grief are an awful combination but just think the key is to have a reasonable balance and not barricade or exclude those who don't want it. a distanced walk or whatever minimises the chances or transmission, I would never advocate invasive indoor sharing

@RoseTintedAtuin

I understand her view. Maybe in summer hols after isolating for 10-14 days she could visit for a week or 2. I’m not suggesting that her way is the right way but is understandable and many people I know are lessening visits and reliance on grandparents to try and keep them safe.

As a fully functioning adult I do not want my children making unilateral decisions on my behalf 'to keep me safe'

Ask me what I want to do.

If you're driving a car, have an accident and your passenger dies, most people would feel bad about it, even if the accident wasn't their fault. Same situation.

I think I’d also feel pretty abysmal if, for example, one of my parents died or became terminally ill for some other reason that’s more likely than Covid (eg cancer) and they’d wasted a year of their life unable to hug their loved ones.

People talking about the flu, I assume the GPS have the flu jab and Primary school children also have flu vaccine (although normally a spray)

The current death from flu figures also include pneumonia

The WHO has come out and said at the moment there is no vaccine in live trials at the moment that is showing more than 50% efficacy.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31821-3/fulltext

According to this 50% efficacy would be enough to make a big difference to transmission rates, and be a step towards herd immunity.

@Nanny0gg..it isn't just about you though. Why is your wants more important than the well being of the children involved. It won't be you to jave to deal with the survivor's guilt

@Batshitbeautycosmeticsltd

Sounds like SIL doesn't want to have contact with her folks or ILs and has found the perfect get out clause.

Quite

@BikeTyson agree. covid is making me look at uncomfortable truths, such as people over 80 are old! thats the truth and literally every day's a bonus. life's a roller coaster and we don't operate the controls. enough clichés now but you get the gist.

We've been to see grandparents but have made sure we are distancing even though the rules suggest it's not necessary.

If any of them contracted it from her and died I'd never forgive myself and neither would DD.

If your parents have a problem with SIL trying to protect them, that's really weird.

But surely it is ultimately down to the SIL and her partner who can see their children and whether anyone can hug them. If you are in England currently GPs shouldn't be hugging unless they are in a support bubble, you should all be SD. Bearing in mind in many areas the rate is rising due to households mixing and hugging.

Laughing at the idea of me telling my dcs' grandparents they weren't allowed out in case they catch covid. They are all keyworkers; two HCPs and a supermarket worker.

Anyway, I also think when we go down the road of "the grandparents don't get to decide, because the sil is the one who has to live with the guilt", we are doing everyone a huge disservice. The grandparents, as they are being infantalised and the sil because the burden of responsibility for somebody else's health is being unfairly laid at her door. It isn't up to anyone to police someone else's health. Unless that is their job of course. Even if the gps catch it, they may have caught it elsewhere. Even if they don't see their gcs, they might die of covid anyway. Not saying that they shouldn't shield if they wish, but certainly, it isn't such a black and white a situation that I think the gps shouldn't get any say in the matter.

They should stay within the guidelines as well of course. I wouldn't be hugging them or letting them get too close to dgcs. Dh hasn't hugged his own mum in months. I haven't seen my dad since last christmas. Dcs don't touch gran and grandad when we meet up for walks. We are taking this all seriously etc, but that doesn't mean I get to tell them what to do, because I think their age means they have to shield. With no qualification other than being their DIL. Again, this would not happening among my dcs' gps no matter what I said, due to their jobs.

@Stripesgalore

My nephew went back to school this week and caught Covid. He’s already seen grandparents, so dreading them being diagnosed with it too. There are no easy answers to any of it.

Seen them according to SD rules or been in close physical contact? As long as you're stuck to the rules it's very unlikely that they will have been infected.

Presumably your nephew didnt catch it at school, 3 days wouldn't be long enough to be infected, display symptoms, get a test and a result would it? Do you know if it maybe came from another family member?

[quote Leaannb]@Nanny0gg..it isn't just about you though. Why is your wants more important than the well being of the children involved. It won't be you to jave to deal with the survivor's guilt[/quote]
Better never drive anyone anywhere just in case you crash.

No. You wait till your children make decisions on your behalf when you're fully capable and see how you like it.

The patronising on here is infuriating

@CheesyGhost

Sooner or later we're gonna have to learn to live with this in a healthier way than isolating everyone, especially against their will. If vulnerable people want to isolate away and are happy to do so then by all means, crack on. But it should be up to each individual to make their own assessment. There comes a point when the lives we're trying to save need to be worth living.

But people aren't just risking their own lives when they decide to prioritize socializing; they are risking becoming a transmitter to everyone else, and risking the lives of prospective health care providers.

Declaring "I'm going to live my life, COVID be damned!" is like announcing you are going to drunk drive whether or not the rest of us like it.

By half term we will know whether the return to school has led to a big increase in cases. If your SIL is refusing to spend Christmas with grandparents and its very obvious that the risk is low, then I think you'll have a point. At the moment she is just being reasonably cautious.