NHS consultant flies to Greek island despite quarantine

[kumquat365]

Name change for this. DH and I have a friend who is an NHS consultant at the top of the pay scale whose service is short-staffed and has spoken to us about the unnecessary deaths caused by lack of cover in his speciality.

He's a keen swimmer and cyclist and booked to go on an activity-style holiday with a friend. He's not married and has no family: this wasn't a family holiday. They were booked to go to an upmarket activity holiday centre on a Greek island that in the last few days has been put on the quarantine list by both Scotland and Wales. The flight was due to depart late yesterday afternoon. Our friend's mate, who is a medic based in England, decided not to risk it and dropped out. Our friend, who works in one of the countries that had declared a 14-day quarantine on return, went in the knowledge he'd have to quarantine on return.

AIBU to feel shocked and disappointed? He's complained so much about shortages of staff in his specialism and he's just taken a decision that will mean it's even worse.

@kumquat365

I'm amazed at the responses. He could have had a cycling/swimming holiday here. In fact the pair of them had been offered someone's nice holiday home on a Scottish loch as an alternative last week. I mentioned it wasn't a family holiday to indicate that he wasn't constrained by obligations to a partner or children.

He complains each time we see him of how patchy his service is, of having clinics cancelled because of lack of support staff and so on. His speciality is one where the likelihood of people dying and he recently told of us of three deaths which ought to have been preventable. But he's made a choice that will put him out of action for another fortnight.

I would suggest you MYOB This sounds like another NHS bashing thread tbh

Man went on holiday knowing there was a quarantine. Let's castrate the git @kumquat365 is that what we're supposed to say.

Look, the real question is did he book his holiday knowing there would be a quarantine? Truth is that the government is imposing restrictions here, there and everywhere and removing them similarly. It's impossible for ordinary people to plan their lives at the moment in the most optimal way. All we can really do is press on regardless. The situation is so fucked up that the quarantine may even be removed while he is there.

OP - we are entitled as anyone else in the country to take our leave as and when and where.

It has been made very clear if you go to a quarantine country then the 2 weeks will be out of your annual leave. This is our choice. Leave was banned from March - I am sitting on 90% of my annual leave as I was going to fly home for 2 weeks at Easter.

WE are pressurised to get back to normal and forego our leave for the greater good. There are limits and some of us need a break. I took a week off - not sufficient time for me to fly home quarantine see family and then come back. Because people knew I had not gone away I was called everyday, harassed and harangued if I said no to discussing stuff. NHS staff of all descriptions come from all over the world - they have lost family members, not attended funerals and want / need to see family for their sanity. Some just need to cycle with no one bombarding them.

His choice and he will be a safer doctor for having a break. NHS workers are human - like everyone else - we have turned up to work through lockdown as it was our job, we also need a break.

None of your business

I'll say again in case it wasn't clear before: I voted YANBU because I think him complaining about staff shortages and then going off on holiday himself is hypocritical.

Yes because some specialties are chronically (permanently) understaffed. Obviously the best way of resolving that situation is to tell the staff they do have that annual leave isn’t allowed and taking it is hypocritical so they can’t have any annual leave ever because treating the staff they do have like crap will definitely help staff retention, avoid burn out and alleviate the understaffing.

Long enough to cancel and find an alternative but probably not long enough to have set up cover and okayed the situation with work.

He won't have been able to give advance notice that his one-week holiday was going to keep him out of the hospital for three weeks

Well which is it? Greece has been on the verge of being added to the list for a while, maybe he planned for that?

My NHS trust are encouraging us to use all of our annual leave by the end of September...

My Trust is encouraging leave now too.
I think most NHS staff have been working long hours since March and haven’t taken any leave at all. We need to recuperate now as who knows what the next few months will bring.
I hope he enjoys himself and takes a well needed break!

I’d stop calling him your friend if I were you. Your post oozes contempt and judgment. Of what relevance is it that he’s single and so it’s not a family holiday? Baffling.

I work in a short-staffed specialty too. I still take annual leave, although can’t get the full amount.

If you’re concerned about the NHS perhaps retrain in a useful profession? Then you can lead the way working 52 weeks a year.

"If you’re concerned about the NHS perhaps retrain in a useful profession? Then you can lead the way working 52 weeks a year."

^^ this x 100! There are plenty of NHS vacancies!!

Also if you had experience in the NHS then you would know that in pretty much all specialties consultants can currently work from home fairly easily, it may be that he does more admin while his colleagues do face to face appointments/procedures/treatments.

We are all paying this man's salary. I employ people. I would expect better judgment from an employee of mine.

Maybe you should text your 'friend', remind him that you pay his salary, and he is not acting like a good employee for you atm?

trixiebelden77

I’d stop calling him your friend if I were you.

Quite.

I also wonder if this chap even knows he's supposed to be Kumquat's friend.
I suspect he invests a lot less time and interest in her and her DH than they do in him.

You need to re write your OP . You claim to be a friend but you are no such thing . You are just a judgy fucker and if you were claiming to be my friend I would prefer you laid your cards on the table so I could tell you where to go.

Hi @kumquat365 YABVU

Firstly, why is it relevant that he is unmarried with no children, and that this isn't a family holiday? Would you not be bothered about all of this if he brought his wife and kids?

More importantly he can do whatever he likes. He and his employer know the consequences of him going to Greece and he's still allowed to go. This should not bother you. I am friends with plenty of doctors and they deserve a holiday more than anyone after the year they've had. If it means going into quarantine when they come back, so be it.

With friends like these ....

@kumquat365 is there something wrong with you? You say he is an "NHS consultant at the top of the pay scale whose service is short-staffed" so believe me, he's stressed. People at the top of their game are often very good at hiding things

You should absolutely ashamed of yourself to suggest that he should just stay in Scotland and not go to Greece because he and his mate can easily change holidays. Why should someone do this because they're unmarried? You day he doesn't have the obligations of a wife and children - what does that even mean? Is your husband's life full of obligations because he's married to you?

I hope he has a wonderful holiday and quarantines for as long as he needs to

So because he has to quarantine for 14 days he's not allowed leave? What if, God forbid, he took 4 weeks leave all in one go, half to go away and half to sit on his arse at home?! Is that not allowed? He is entitled to take his leave how and when he wishes no matter what his profession or marital status

@kumquat365

You're not much of a friend, are you?

I'm a consultant. I've just been on leave (not abroad). It may well be my last leave until after winter, given how this winter is likely to be. While not abroad, I had considered what the options would be should I have to self-isolate on return (there is COVID in UK, you know).

A colleague (same specialty) is on leave in a country that requires quarantine on return. An outside observer (though not a friend!) might think similarly to you. However, said consultant has arranged work such that the non 'face-to-face' parts of the job are the ones that are slotted in for the 2 weeks after return. Things like management meetings, specialty meetings, teaching, quality/safety projects, research, governance activities - and, as people have mentioned, even telephone/video clinics can be done from home. As a team we have supported our colleague to take this leave - it may well be the last until next year, and colleague has worked tirelessly over the last months.

I'm glad you're not my friend. I would feel insulted at your slur on my professionalism in suggesting I would leave colleagues in the lurch and would not have carefully considered the options. I would also be telling you as little as your 'friend' obviously is about my stressors - an NHS consultant in a short-staffed unit who's not stressed?

Depends on how work support quarantine. If he books 4 weeks annual leave incl quarantine period then its fairer as he wont get anymore time off than his leave year allows.
If he is taking quarantine as 2 weeks as unpaid leave which is in addition to annual leave then yes it is a bit selfish as over the course of the year he will have more time off than usual at a time of crisis. ( And imo would lose the moral high ground when talking about staff shortages!)
If he doesnt have to quarantine as keyworker then i would be concerned about covid risk if he returns straight back to working in a hospital with vulnerable people.
He obviously deserves and needs a holiday, probably the Scottish holiday would have been the wiser, less selfish choice but consultants, rightly or wrongly, do have a reputation for arrogance and he probably didn't want to compromise his holiday plans.

He won't have been able to give advance notice that his one-week holiday was going to keep him out of the hospital for three weeks because he didn't know about the quarantine till yesterday. His mate bailed so as not to risk being quarantined.

People have known about the risk of quarantine being imposed at short notice for a long time. So you really don't know that he and the hospital didn't factor that fully into their plans some time ago.

If you're that bothered about his department, when have you volunteered to help or applied for a job there? Even if you're not medically qualified, I'm sure you could be a HCA, cleaner or admin assistant.

What an evil monster, he needs a one way ticket to jail.

You sound bloody awful. Glad I’m not your friend!

I’m more bothered about the NHS consultants who aren’t available because of the private work they take on.

He can go on holiday if he likes. He’ll have to quarantine. End of.

YABVU. I hope your "friend" has a wonderful time on holiday - he deserves a break

Its not your friends fault there aren't enough staff in his specialism, thats management's responsibility for ensuring there is sufficient staff. People shouldn't feel like they have to cover if they are constantly understaffed.

Given he's a top consultant at top of his pay-grade then he's probably worked very hard to get to that point, lots of exams, studying and long hours earlier in his career and he's IMO he more than entitled to spend his well-earned money going on lovely holidays abroad, several times a year if he wants.

An activity holiday in UK would be worse experience that somewhere sunny and warm like Greece, for a start, the roads are likely to be dry and (in my experience quiet) in Greece whereas cycling in the rain or cold, wet roads in UK is hardly anyones cup of tea! Ditto swimming, tennis or any other activity really! I personally like active resort holidays like that myself, huge choice of activities all planned and organised by activity staff, so the hardest part of the holiday is chosing everything you want to do when you arrive and then find your sun lotion each morning! Going to a B&B by the coast in the UK and a few cycle rides (that you'd have to plan yourself!) isn't the same thing at at all.

The fact he doesn't have family/partner is completely irrelevant ... if anything thats more reason to go away - after all why is he working if not to have time / money to enjoy himself? Sitting at home by yourself on annual leave is dull.

As long as people are able to either WFH, take annual leave or happy to take more unpaid leave to cover quarantine I really couldn't care less where and if people go on holiday. People need to relax and have fun if they can. Personally can't go on holiday but I don't begrudge other people who have more flexibility and I hope they have lovely time.*

(* as long as they don't whinge about quarantine on return!)