NHS consultant flies to Greek island despite quarantine

[kumquat365]

Name change for this. DH and I have a friend who is an NHS consultant at the top of the pay scale whose service is short-staffed and has spoken to us about the unnecessary deaths caused by lack of cover in his speciality.

He's a keen swimmer and cyclist and booked to go on an activity-style holiday with a friend. He's not married and has no family: this wasn't a family holiday. They were booked to go to an upmarket activity holiday centre on a Greek island that in the last few days has been put on the quarantine list by both Scotland and Wales. The flight was due to depart late yesterday afternoon. Our friend's mate, who is a medic based in England, decided not to risk it and dropped out. Our friend, who works in one of the countries that had declared a 14-day quarantine on return, went in the knowledge he'd have to quarantine on return.

AIBU to feel shocked and disappointed? He's complained so much about shortages of staff in his specialism and he's just taken a decision that will mean it's even worse.

Some posters seem to think that surgeons are self-employed and can take time off whenever they like. Surgeons are employees, and have to get leave signed off, just like anyone else in the NHS. If this guy has to quarantine, it will have been agreed by his manager, either as annual leave or as WFH.

'Are you actually daft enough to think it's either face to face appointments or a bit of online training for a consultant, with no other options available?'

Look, I couldnt give a rat's ass if he's a consultant or a cleaner. There's some weird hero worshipping going on on this thread. If you're employed you don't go somewhere you know you will then have to quarantine from. Unless you have no thought for colleagues and patients.

@lovelemoncurd even some monks and nuns get holidays!

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Are you actually daft enough to think it's either face to face appointments or a bit of online training for a consultant, with no other options available?'

Look, I couldnt give a rat's ass if he's a consultant or a cleaner. There's some weird hero worshipping going on on this thread. If you're employed you don't go somewhere you know you will then have to quarantine from. Unless you have no thought for colleagues and patients.

Tellingly, that doesn't answer the question. You do seem to struggle though with the possibility that some jobs involve work that can be done remotely and others don't. Perhaps it might be an idea to start giving a rat's arse what the actual job is though, as it would avoid you making such a fool of yourself.

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@lovelemoncurd even some monks and nuns get holidays![/quote]
Priests do! I have done a couple of long walking routes with our priest - we are both history buffs and keen hillwalkers and campers and have gone on a couple of long group walks, taking holiday time to do so.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'If a Doctor can quarantine in his/her own time and dollar on their return, or can quarantine without it having an effect on their work then it really really is absolutely none of our business.'

Oh I bet everybody would say that. Nurses could do a bit of online training for 2 weeks, ditto teachers and social workers.

The point is if you're part of a work force you have to act responsibly.

I'm a bit judgey of anyone who are featured the msm on their jollies all shocked at quarantine rules imposed but to go knowing they are in place takes a special kind of arrogance/stupidity imo.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

I’m a social worker. All local authority policies are clear that, with line manager approval, we are welcome to go to countries with a quarantine period. Depending on the role, it’s not impossible to work from home and deliver a good service.

There's some weird hero worshipping going on on this thread. If you're employed you don't go somewhere you know you will then have to quarantine from. Unless you have no thought for colleagues and patients

Discipline or sack him then?

That will help the huge shortage of consultants in the NHS, 39% of consultant posts are left unfulfilled.

Staff shortages are a management issue or in the case of the NHS, due to govt funding but easier to blame the individual rather than face the harsh reality.

This thread is such an eye opener, the levels of uncritical hero worship. FWIW I work for the NHS and this scenario would not go down at all well in our Trust. Three weeks annual leave taken in one go (which I think must be the minimum here) requires special approval a good amount of time in advance. He may be able to wfh during his quarantine, but if he is now back to seeing patients face to face (I'm conscious we don't know what his specialty is) then his unplanned physical absence will have an impact on service, plus not all patients are outpatients anyway. This is a critical time to try and get as much of the backlog cleared as possible before Covid/flu hits again. If our medical director or divisional clinical directors got wind there would be trouble. And whatever government mandated quarantine exemptions might be for healthcare workers, I believe a lot of Trusts are enforcing quarantine for non-corridor countries anyway.

So OP YANBU, he is a cf.

This is the first thread I've read that covers the thorny issue of "booking a holiday abroad/travelling abroad during a pandemic" where the subject (in this case the consultant ) hasn't had their actions and consequences of such ripped to shreds.

The contrast compared to other threads is bizarre

Exactly. Imagine a teacher had done this, booked the last 2 weeks of the summer hols off to a place they knew fine well they would have to quarantine on their return. The kids could have some more remote learning, or their colleagues could do extra work. That's fine!

But that's a nonsensical comparison. Teachers' leave is fixed on the whole. Consultants' isn't. And there's a robust process in place for signing off Consultant leave. The OP has no idea whether potential quarantine leave has already been agreed and cover arranged, or other arrangements made.

@womanvsfood

This thread is such an eye opener, the levels of uncritical hero worship. FWIW I work for the NHS and this scenario would not go down at all well in our Trust. Three weeks annual leave taken in one go (which I think must be the minimum here) requires special approval a good amount of time in advance. He may be able to wfh during his quarantine, but if he is now back to seeing patients face to face (I'm conscious we don't know what his specialty is) then his unplanned physical absence will have an impact on service, plus not all patients are outpatients anyway. This is a critical time to try and get as much of the backlog cleared as possible before Covid/flu hits again. If our medical director or divisional clinical directors got wind there would be trouble. And whatever government mandated quarantine exemptions might be for healthcare workers, I believe a lot of Trusts are enforcing quarantine for non-corridor countries anyway.

So OP YANBU, he is a cf.

Again, if he is planning to do this, it must have been signed off by his line manager. So it's not an unplanned absence. For all we know, it may be useful for the Trust to have his usual theatre time free, especially if there are other specialities with bigger backlogs who can use it instead. There is huge competition amongst surgeons for list time at the moment. The blocks to clearing backlogs are not the availability of surgeons - most hospitals have more surgeons than they can actually use at present, so it makes complete sense to let them take time off.

Our local hospital trust is letting everyone travel, regardless of quarantine risk.

[quote BovaryX]@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Learn to read. I am not in the UK. I live in a developed country with a functioning health care system where patients aren't expected to be simperingly grateful because the doctor shows up to work. You and your attitude wouldn't last five seconds in a competitive health care environment. Like there is in the rest of the developed world. It must be horrendous to be reliant for basic medical care on someone with your arrogant contemptuous attitude.[/quote]
Gosh, I do hope they're doing something about your blood pressure and anger issues.

You kicked off our interaction by telling me to fuck off. I bet this. My blood pressure is lower than yours. I feel really sorry for your patients.

I'm not following well.

OP's friend has a health care job that isn't actually in great demand, which is why he has worked PT recently.

He's going on holiday because he's due lots of holiday.

OP disapproves because... ?

@BovaryX

You kicked off our interaction by telling me to fuck off. I bet this. My blood pressure is lower than yours. I feel really sorry for your patients.

The OP has no idea whether potential quarantine leave has already been agreed and cover arranged, or other arrangements made.

^This.

Foreign travel is still allowed, though I get the impression that fact is sticking in some peoples' throats.

The Uk government places restrictions on the activities on people returning from some countries.

If the consultant has agreed time off with his employer that covers both the travel abroad and also any subsequent elf isolation requirement then frankly that is between them and their employer.

This nothing to do with "hero worship", it's simply a matter of respecting the somebody's private life.

Again, if he is planning to do this, it must have been signed off by his line manager. So it's not an unplanned absence. For all we know, it may be useful for the Trust to have his usual theatre time free, especially if there are other specialities with bigger backlogs who can use it instead. There is huge competition amongst surgeons for list time at the moment. The blocks to clearing backlogs are not the availability of surgeons - most hospitals have more surgeons than they can actually use at present, so it makes complete sense to let them take time off.

I don't think we have any idea whether he's even a surgeon do we?

You can feel how you want but really it’s not your business how he spends his annual leave.

I didn’t think you had to quarantine for returning from Greec (unless Wales or Scotland)?

I'll say again in case it wasn't clear before: I voted YANBU because I think him complaining about staff shortages and then going off on holiday himself is hypocritical.

Do consultants actually see anyone face to face yet or are they still only doing telephone appointments?

I'm a bit judgey of anyone who are featured the msm on their jollies all shocked at quarantine rules imposed but to go knowing they are in place takes a special kind of arrogance/stupidity imo.

Almost the same arrogance / stupidity as the covid wankers who believe the rules don’t apply to them, eh?

Greece, oh how fab. Hope he has a great time!

We could probably start narrowing down who this guy actually is

Male consultant in Wales or Scotland recently gone to Greece on activity holiday. No children.

Come on op, just drop a couple more clues and I could probably find him. You know you want to.

Don’t engage with @BovaryX. They turn up on every NHS thread and say stupid things.