NHS consultant flies to Greek island despite quarantine

[kumquat365]

Name change for this. DH and I have a friend who is an NHS consultant at the top of the pay scale whose service is short-staffed and has spoken to us about the unnecessary deaths caused by lack of cover in his speciality.

He's a keen swimmer and cyclist and booked to go on an activity-style holiday with a friend. He's not married and has no family: this wasn't a family holiday. They were booked to go to an upmarket activity holiday centre on a Greek island that in the last few days has been put on the quarantine list by both Scotland and Wales. The flight was due to depart late yesterday afternoon. Our friend's mate, who is a medic based in England, decided not to risk it and dropped out. Our friend, who works in one of the countries that had declared a 14-day quarantine on return, went in the knowledge he'd have to quarantine on return.

AIBU to feel shocked and disappointed? He's complained so much about shortages of staff in his specialism and he's just taken a decision that will mean it's even worse.

@IntermittentParps

Against the grain but I think YANBU. Yes, he deserves and needs a holiday. But what makes me say YANBU is that he's being a hypocrite if he's complaining about shortages of staff and then going off and becoming a shortage himself.

The shortage is caused by the boards, prepping for the second wave in my boards case so blocking consultants from doing their bloody jobs.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Doctors are human beings too.'

Yes they are. However they also have jobs to do. I await a thread in the next few weeks 'my poor dm finally got her opa to then find out it's been cancelled as the consultant went away knowing fine well he would have to quarantine on his return'. Not that they'd be told that of course.

Would people really say mind your own business, he deserves his holiday plus a bonus 2weeks off?!

I have read the thread but can’t see that the OP has said her friend is a surgeon? Because if he isn’t then this example is totally irrelevant.

Incidentally my husband is a consultant surgeon, and with notice you can generally arrange lists to ensure that cases don’t get cancelled because of your leave. However it seems cases get cancelled all the bloody time for reasons which are nothing to do with a surgeon taking annual leave.

In fact when we were isolating as I had a cough, none of his operations got cancelled even at that short notice of his absence, they rejigged it so he did clinics from home and the person who had been doing the clinic did his ops (or something like that, may not have been quite that simple but they sorted it).

@kumquat365

FaffingforEngland,

Oh and to the OP, I hope your friend reads your post and works out who you are. Because I somehow doubt you've dared to say it to his face.

I've already told him I think he's made a poor choice. And what's more so have several people working in the NHS.

I love the NHS and know quite a few people who work in it, from consultants to cleaners. And while some of them have been working ridiculous hours and making all kinds of personal sacrifices in order to get through the Covid crisis, you're being disingenuous at the very least to promote the idea that everyone has had the same workload.

Where did I promote the idea that everyone has the same workload? You're making that up.

I'd be fascinated to know what your friend says when you pointed out his poor choices

@IntermittentParps

Against the grain but I think YANBU. Yes, he deserves and needs a holiday. But what makes me say YANBU is that he's being a hypocrite if he's complaining about shortages of staff and then going off and becoming a shortage himself.

So you think he should just work himself into the ground and not have leave because they struggle to get staff?

That is exactly how you lose staff.

Would it have been OK if he'd taken 3 weeks of holiday in the UK?

He'd be perfectly entitled to do that as well.

@kumquat365 it would be helpful to know his specialty to decide if you’re being fair or not in some of the comments you make.

If the OP's friend has had additional annual leave approved in order to include the quarantine period, or he's approved to WFH over this period and it won't be to the detriment of his workplace then OP is BU (although not sure if I missed holiday length in OP's posts but assume holiday is at least a week and three weeks plus annual leave at one time is unusual in most workplaces I thought). If it is approved and planned for it might be sensible ahead of winter pressures.

But it doesn't sound like this is the case, which means that it's an unplanned for absence which will impact patients and colleagues. To some extent the NHS part is irrelevant because I'd expect any employee to be sensible and not go abroad knowing there would likely be an unplanned absence thereafter (assuming it wasn't pre approved), but it's particularly significant here because patients may suffer as a result.

I don't think OP sounds bitter or jealous in the slightest and I understand why she's mentioned payscale and situation for context.

Of course doctors and everyone else are entitled to annual leave but I'd hope that many would put their patients/customers and coworkers first in a situation where there would be an unplanned for absence thereafter equal or exceeding the approved leave in length

YABU As long as we're working (and playing) within the rules everyone has the same right to make decisions about their home and family life. If the system is lacking people with his skills that's a problem with the system not his problem to solve.

I would agree that it's not a good idea to go abroad for the risk factor etc, no way you'd get me in an airport, far less a plane or abroad at this time - but it's not against the rules to do so. I go to the pub now occasionally and I'm sure plenty of people would deem that unnecessarily risky.

Seriously OP? Shocked and disappointed because your friend had a holiday he is perfectly entitled to take?

Wow.

Is the "other medic" your husband, op ?

OMG he can take time off if he wants to like everyone else.
Why are you so jealous, not having a holiday yourself?

@LEELULUMPKIN I think OP made it clear that it's not the holiday itself that she's concerned about just the period of (presumably unplanned for) absence thereafter. Obviously if he's simply extended his annual leave that's different

I'm just curious those in support of this, would you do the same thing if you knew that you could not add the quarantine period to your annual leave and, for argument's sake, couldn't work from home effectively? I always felt that my career needed to come quite high priority and if nothing else, this would likely be noticed and rewarded in later opportunities

It feels like there's a lot of "well they can't stop me" attitudes about that are then mystified when they are passed over for promotion

@FixTheBone

Would it have been OK if he'd taken 3 weeks of holiday in the UK?

He'd be perfectly entitled to do that as well.

But that would have been planned and subject to approval by HR etc to ensure cover etc.

Taking 2 weeks extra, unplanned, at short notice is a completely different matter.

He's not a saint, he wants a break. He clearly works hard and cares, staff shortages aren't his fault and it shouldn't be on his shoulders. Better to have a holiday and quarantine than burn out in a couple years and leave all together. YABU.

He could have had a cycling/swimming holiday here.

Yeah right - because that would be so like Greece

YABU. He's a doctor, not a saint. Staff shortages aren't caused by him and he has the right to prioritize his personal life just as everyone else does.

But he shouldn't be paid, he should have to take unpaid leave like everyone else in this situation (to the extent he can't work from home).

If i were this consultant, reading through this, i'd fuck off to the private sector asap.

We are all paying this man's salary. I employ people. I would expect better judgment from an employee of mine.

As a doctor who’s salary you pay (ha!), I’d like you to have this OP

Is the consultant in Scotland or Wales then?

We are all paying this man's salary

So we own him then, do we?

Op are you the other medic?
If not then honest to God un-clutch your pearls and carry on with your day

@singme

Doctors pay tax too! So he’s funding his own salary just as much as (or more than) other individuals.

I’m sure he would have taken into account what quarantine would mean for his service and may well have the leave to cover or be able to work remotely.

I’m a doctor and I didn’t think that we are exempt from quarantine after holidays, only when coming to the country to work after living abroad or extended stay abroad? I’m on mat leave but my doctor friend just cancelled her holiday because she would have to quarantine.

singme, I applaud your friend for making that decision. I hope she finds a good alternative. My friend knew that his destination had been added to the quarantine list for some hours before he departed for the airport. Long enough to cancel and find an alternative but probably not long enough to have set up cover and okayed the situation with work.

You make a lot of assumptions about his working practices.

Probably ...
So you don’t know but decided to write a spiteful post anyway.

He probably needs a holiday more than most people. What’s it got to do with anyone else.