WIBU to tell her I basically disapprove of her favourite YouTube channel?

[thepeopleversuswork]

Not sure if this is AIBU really but posting for traffic. Unsure how to handle this.

My DD, 9, during a particularly fraught period of lockdown, relied heavily (far too heavily IMO) on watching a particular YouTube channel which revolves around a group of young adults commenting on playing video games.

It's innocuous enough really: not harmful or X rated, not violent and doesn't have adult or sexualised content. I dislike it though because I think its utterly mindless just a massive time vacuum: uninteresting, uncreative and I just think there are far better ways to spend your time. She spent far more time on it than I might have wanted during lockdown because I'm a lone parent and I needed undisturbed time to work my job is extremely intolerant of interruptions by children etc and I had to guarantee quiet time on conference calls etc. Now we're coming out of it and she's back in school/childcare, she does have other things going on in her life and I desperately want her to channel her energies elsewhere and am really encouraging her not to spend as much time watching this.

I really want to discourage it without discouraging it IYSWIM. She is very preoccupied with it and talks about it a lot. I'm totally uninterested in it and don't want to take up quality time talking about it. I try not to be actively disparaging but to gently change the subject or steer her away from it. But I know its not a great idea to pour scorn on something your kids are really passionate about.

This morning I lost it a bit. She was getting ready for school and started talking about it for the umpteenth time when I was trying to get her ready and I said, probably a bit sharply, basically, now you're back at school and back in the real world its time to move on from this: it eats a lot of your time and its uninteresting and I'm tired of talking about it.

I feel awful about my response: partly because its bound up with my own feelings of guilt about being a working mother and also because I don't want to put her down about something she loves. I know I didn't handle it well...

But I am so sick of it and having to feign interest in it the whole time and I genuinely feel that its a big drain on energy which could be so better directed towards more creative things.

Should I just zip it and let it wash over me? I've no doubt she will grow out of it at some point so maybe I just need to endure it. Or is there a place for parents telling their kids their energies are better spent elsewhere, particularly if it means family and friends are having to listen to discussion on a subject ad nauseam? I kind of feel that if she were an adult people would let her know if she was boring on about something to the point that it was difficult to tolerate. Where's the line?

JadesRollerDisco

That is one perspective and I kind of wish I could see it like that.

Trouble is I just feel angry that I was forced into a position where I had to allow my kid to watch endless shite in order to allow me to be able to do my job. But that's a whole other story.

@thepeopleversuswork

lunar1

"You can't allow YouTube to be her life for months and then belittle her for the fact that it's all she has to talk about, that's your failing, not hers."

I had no choice. I am a single parent and my employer cautioned me several times for "unwarranted interruptions" to conference calls by my child. It was a total nightmare. It was literally the only way to allow me time to work uninterrupted. The alternative would have been her constantly being visible and audible on work calls.

What would you have suggested? That I lose my job?

I never suggested you should risk your job, but you can't parent one way for months and then expect your child to go back to how things were before immediately.

You did what you had to do and so did your daughter, your attitude seems so belittling towards her.

My ds watch that cat bloke with the really annoying laugh, along with his wife with the incredibly irritating high pitched voice. I don't mind it really because they don't swear or say it show anything untoward but yes, I do keep having the same conversation, with my 9 y old ds in particular, about how not everyone is interested in Minecraft and that it's a bit rude to constantly interrupt conversations and steer them around to that topic. Their YT time on the chromebook is limited to 2 hours a day and when they go back to school next week it'll be blocked on the TV again apart from the weekends.

Yeah, but don't be angry with her choices. Be grateful for her resilience, self reliance, pragmatism and adaptability, and yours, in difficult circumstances, and find somewhere better to place your anger, or better still find a way to let go of it.

I have been in the same boat OP. Trying my damn best but finding times when I've had to let mine be babysat by YouTube. I'm not proud but I'm just trying to get things done with no support.

It's bloody Eboys with my daughter. It's all she wants to talk about. She's obsessed right now (she's autistic I should point out).

I feel like I've grieved a little for the young girl I thought she'd be, like my other kids they'd have been out riding bikes and learning social skills. But instead we've been locked up for months as I'm shielding (well was). I'd be happy hearing about a new skateboard truck, friend, how high she managed to jump off the swings. Instead it's how memulous got a million subscribers or willne and his latest live steam or bloody whatever.

She's older than your child and has mental health problems so it's almost like she's submerged herself into their reality to avoid her own at times and I've found that disturbing.

I've pulled her away from it somewhat but she's quite lost without it 🤷‍♀️

I think you’re being an incredibly unfair OP. You left her to her own devices and are annoyed she chose something that appealed to her rather than to you. She’s 9... she’s not going to look at it objectively and say “ is this a good use of my time?” Lots of people, myself included were in the same boat and just had to muddle along. If you wanted a different outcome you needed to be present more. You seem to be dismissive & rude of a situation that was no more of her making than it was yours.

lunar1

"your attitude seems so belittling towards her".

Fair enough: I hadn't seen it like that but if you think that its a useful perspective. My attitude comes from a place of fear (for her) and self-judgement and wasn't intended to belittle. I was trying to strike a balance between not putting something down gratuitously and steering her away from something which I think is the entertainment version of "empty calories". I just didn't know where I should be on the spectrum.

If you think I've been too harsh then that's fair: I guess I need to try harder to be supportive and interested.

*Divebar"

"If you wanted a different outcome you needed to be present more."

I think that's unfair tbh.

You're well within your rights to point out that I'm being dismissive and I take that on the chin.

But I've explained here that I had no choice but to do this. I physically couldn't be more "present" without losing my job. It was incredibly difficult and painful for me that I was put in this position.

Fair enough I haven't handled this well (and I can see there's some truth in this). But you're out of order for making me feel that I've been a bad parent for having to prioritise working to keep a roof over her head at a time when millions of people were losing their jobs.

In no universe can I see myself finding this stuff remotely life enhancing.

I used to think that too but as a single parent who spent almost all of lockdown with what was most likely "long-Covid" my DS7 spent a huge amount of time watching more of these videos than I would normally let him. Unbeknownst to me, initially, he was inspired by these videos to create his own multi-level platform game that he designed himself. He designed the characters, creating them in several positions so the move with stop motion. He created a complex gameplay involving his world existing in two different sizes, meaning you need to find a shrink potion to access about a third of the gameplay and complete levels. (Using the Bloxels board and app, which I highly recommend for any child interested in game development but who isn't yet ready to use Scratch completely unassisted.)

Since going back to school this week, he comes home every day and sets about writing his own Creepypasta (a type of internet horror story). His grasp of storytelling and the complexity of the language he is using is excellent for a child of 7. He's a natural sight-reader who has struggled with phonics (not helped by him being very ill last year) so his writing is slow going. But he's so determined to join in with what I can see is actually a very creative community, is fuelling him to sit down every day and write and is making him think about word formation in a way that he hasn't ever been able to do.

So as utterly devoid of substance as these videos appear, they aren't. They are the current culture and children derive all sorts of meaning from them. To compare that community to paedophiles is beyond hysterical nonsense and really shameful. Especially considering the fact that traditional entertainment media for children has been absolutely rife with child abuse and actual real paedophilia, from Jim'll'fixit to the likes of the allegations against Dan Schneider at Nickelodeon, etc.

I agree with you OP. I think the problem is not so much with what she is watching on YouTube but rather what she is not doing as a result of it. Activities that will actually enrich her life iyswim.

YouTube and gaming are good for instant reward in the brain and that's why they become addictive. Children (and many adults!) are not able to regulate this. I know I'm guilty of mindless scrolling on my phone sometimes!

alittleprivacy

Fair enough.
I have to say this whole thread has been a bit of a wake-up call for me. I appreciate that I've probably called this wrong and a lot of my reaction is coming from not a very healthy place on my part. Thanks all.

FYI I wasn't comparing online gaming communities to paedophile rings. I was just making the point that the fact something is a "community" doesn't automatically mean its wholesome. But I take your point.

Maybe I need to accept that I just need to fake interest in it

Exactly yes. Every time my son presented me with a soup that had olive oil, orange juice and dried pasta I pretended it was delicious.

Sometimes you just have to fake it for their sakes

Mumsnet isn't a direct analogy really: its goal oriented -- you go on to solve a problem or get an answer. You don't spend hours aimlessly on it.

Hahahahahahaha

RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

Yep.

It's really hard for me to unpick how much of my reaction is triggered by a genuine concern as opposed to my own fears/snobberies and lockdown-related anxiety. Its something I'm still struggling with.

I still think its good to keep kids feet on the ground and make sure they have a "real" life alongside a virtual one.

But I can tell by some of your reactions that my neuroses have got the better of me slightly. Thanks all of you.

@alittleprivacy I found that really interesting. I would love my DD to be inspired in that way and that to me would definitely make this a good use of her time.

However for every child who is inspired to make up their own games and stories surely there will be some who just sit and watch and never create? I was obsessed with a band at age 13 but never tried forming a band or writing songs.

Would you still be as happy with your DS watching these channels if he had never started creating his own stuff? (as OP’s DC has not?)

As the mother of a child ASD who has interests he is heavily invested in/utterly obsessed and talks about endlessly, (including avidly watching certain YouTube channels) this to me is part of parenting. We’re not massively interested in it ourselves but my partner and I manage to engage in polite conversation about it with him every day, several times a day right now. Even his teenage sister can manage it and she’s currently the most intolerant person I know right now

I suppose it’s a bit like how my granny was a big church goer and talked about her friends at church, and the services as that was a big part of her life and despite me having zero interest in church and religion of any kind, I managed to listen politely and smile/laugh/look concerned in the right places.

@thepeopleversuswork Look I hate it too, especially when DS goes on and on and on about the videos or what's happening in Piggy. (A horror Roblox game based on Peppa Pig for some reason!) I tried for a long, long time to get him to move away from them, but for whatever reason, this is what appeals to kids these days. But I can see the good of them now that I can see how they inspire creativity. I think in a lot of ways they feel more democratic and accessible to children than traditional media.

They allow fans to take a degree of control, to think about what they are consuming and even perform a critical analysis that I think helps them with understanding what they are watching and devise their own stories and games in a way that I don't think was something children of our generation could do. One of DS's favourite channels in Connor The Waffle, and he does these great reviews of children's cartoon where he discussed the emotional depth and life lessons in a way that I think actual broadens my DS's understanding in a way that is eye-opening to a child that young. So while I don't actually understand why these are so very entertaining to young kids, I can see that they aren't as devoid of substance as I had assumed they were.

The big thing for me that I have learned to like about them is how they inspire children to create. I really do recommend the Bloxels board as a way to allow younger children to create rather than just consume. It's a physical board with square blocks that can be used to create characters and backgrounds. In backgrounds, each colour has a different function, so kids are able to create really interesting gameplay all by themselves. On the app, each board appears as a square of the board, so kids have to make their backgrounds and gameplay block, by block and it really makes them think in a way that's both artistic and like basic coding. DS found it in a charity shop last year and begged me to buy it. I nearly didn't but am really, really glad I did because honestly, seeing my DS be so creative makes me feel 10000 times better about his youtube habit!

www.amazon.co.uk/Mattel-FFB15-Bloxels-Build-Video/dp/B01FUFJ4ZQ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=bloxels&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1599127413&sr=8-1

@minipie However for every child who is inspired to make up their own games and stories surely there will be some who just sit and watch and never create? I was obsessed with a band at age 13 but never tried forming a band or writing songs.

This is where this kind of entertainment media differs from what we grew up with. It's accessible to absolutely anyone. It's not something where only the elite few who make it manage to share their works with the world. In theory, absolutely anyone can. (Don't get me wrong, this is rife with dangers and lasting consequences that I don't think we've yet fully seen the limit of. And I wouldn't let DS put himself 'out there' online as a child.) But he sees a world where he can develop a game on Roblox when he's a little older and find people who will appreciate it. He sees a world where he can create a game or a story or a song and share it. He sees a world where his opinion has a chance to matter. Not as a one in a million success story, but just as what people can do now.

My nephew is four and would watch endless amounts of train videos if we let him. I find it utterly boring but he loves it so wouldn't stop him from watching them. (Within his screen time limit)

She's not hurting anything by watching these vids and she'll probably grow out of it.

Yes that’s a very good point. There’s much more that’s been developed specifically for children, so they can do their own creating, compared with our childhoods.

I think a lot of us struggle with finding the “new world” of social media, youtube, gaming etc as valid as the “old world” of academic subjects, sports, face to face socialising. But a lot of jobs and life in future are going to come from the “new world” so we need to get used to it or risk our DC being out of step.

Your daughter doesn't have to like things that you find worthy of her. She is an individual and will have different thoughts and interests to you and that is normal.

It is fine that you remind her not to bore everyone to death about one thing but i really despise the idea that some hobbies and interests are worthy and others aren't.

My mother loves soaps and reality TV. I mainly watch documentaries. That doesn’t make me better than her, it just means we like different things

BarbedBloom

"i really despise the idea that some hobbies and interests are worthy and others aren't."

I basically agree with you in principle. And yet...

I do think that there's something intrinsic to online activity which means it can become all-consuming. There are no rate-limiting steps.

If you're cycling or playing football or fishing or stamp collecting there's a limit to the time (and money) you can spend on these activities so they are self-limiting. You may obsess about them but unless you're a professional you can't spend 14 hours a day on them.

Online has the capacity to become the only thing a person does (and there are people who live their entire lives online).

That's what scares me about it.

I'm in a minority who think yanbu, at least for the most part. I do think it is a step to far to tell her she is boring, or boring you with her chatter. But I do understand entirely why her obsession irritates you and bites harder because of the whole working-mum guilt thing.

I do think that children have over-engaged in their online lives during lockdown, at the expense of finding a balance of activities. Many children have frittered away huge chunks of time, with nothing to show for it. Watching anything is passive. Sure, you might learn a few things. But it is not healthy to do it ALL the time.

It is a very addictive activity and very hard for a parent to say no, when the alternative activities are not as enjoyable. We have battled to control iPad hours with DD age 10 during lockdown, setting limits has helped but then she will whinge about being bored, and needs interaction to get on with other things. There are only so many hours in a day a 21st century child will spend doing puzzles, reading, playing with toys or jumping on the trampoline alone. They know there are better things on offer - the ipad is irresistible.

I do think our children have been lonely during lockdown. No friends to play, no clubs, no grandparents, no school or shopping trips or playgrounds for ages... it is any wonder they enjoy listening to people nattering about nothing online? These youtubers become like friends to them.

I'm lucky that apart from watching cats on youtube, my DD hasn't bothered with it much (she has Disney+ and Netflix if she wants to veg out watching nonsense).

Her particular poison is gaming. Minecraft is a fading passion, and I quite like it but as she never played the aggressive version it was really just online building. She loves Roblox (I have a different take on this to you, OP, as I have permitted her access to the chat function so she has spent hours playing with her schoolfriends and cousins and it has been like a virtual play date environment. And I've found it very creative and imaginative - designing houses, exploring worlds, dressing up, caring for pets and children, doing talent shows etc. Plus it introduced her to coding as she started to do her own games, with some help from me and - haha - as few YouTube videos).

I would suggest you carry on humouring her and trying to divert her. But don't offer her books or baking!!! Meet her halfway. Tell her, okay she can tall to you for a few minutes about her fave YouTuber but then, you are DESPERATE to tell her all about something you have seen. Then, interrupt her and have something up your sleeve - maybe it is a YouTuber who teaches you how to draw cute cartoon characters, or a YouTube video that will make her laugh. Or introduce her to music! Get her listening to all sorts of different music online and find out what she likes and hates. Challenge her to build a playlist of songs that she can dance to, songs that make her feel happy, songs that are older than you are, etc (Those American Youtubers who video themselves listening to classic songs are also quite funny, she might like that.)

I'm sure you are bright enough to find things that are stimulating online. My DD happens to love watching clips of horrific weather events - there are some fantastic YouTube channels that do nature and science videos so I push her in that direction. Sometimes I challenge her to find out a fact that I don't already know about a topic (eg I say (untruthfully and with a huge smug grin), "oh I know absolutely EVERYTHING about volcanoes. You couldn't find anything online that I don't already know. I bet you a packet of Haribos you can't find a single fact about volcanoes that impresses me."). Kids love showing you that they are cleverer thank you think, and that you are not as clever as you think, in my experience.

I do think it is a mistake not to engage in these new ways of interacting, because this is the world our children live in. This is their reality. And, they are far more likely to give it a go when you suggest something, if you have established that you understand what they enjoy. I am now able to say to DD, after 5 months of persevering, 'hey time for you to have a screen break and do something different...' and mostly she now respects that (with a bit of eye-rolling).

Also, you can say that now she is back at school there will be no YouTube until x o'clock, and limit the hours at the weekend. She will moan at you, but that's fine. Tough it out. It is definitely in her interest to re-engage with what's happening IRL, beyond just what's happening online.

I'm very honest with my dc re what I think of the stuff they watch. Whether or not I like it has no relation to whether or not they are allowed it, but I see no need to pretend that I think it's any good when it isn't. And they are perfectly entitled to have and share an opinion on what I watch!

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.

Would you be as bothered if your child were mad about watching sport?

Both involve watching others play a game and listening to the commentary. So they are similar, if not identical.

Appreciate the obsessional banging on is boring regardless of whether they're watching sport or online games. Just thought a different perspective might help with your frustration (which I do understand, my 6 year old would watch other children play with toys for hours if left to her own devices and it does my head in).