Am AIBU to think Covid has changed us all?

[Daleksatemyshed]

I'm reading so many posts from people saying they're seeing their DH/DP's in a new light, and not for the better, people who are afraid to meet family, send their DC to school, just struggling with every day life to the point their MH is breaking down. Who would have thought a disease would do this to us?

I disagree. Any measures people want to take will only harm children's mental health if they are presented in an anxious and fear ridden way. That's not the same thing at all. It's easy to present things to children in a calm manner. There's a big difference.

@Namara, thank you for this comment. I really needed to hear this.

I'm trying to shield my clinically vulnerable DC, whilst giving him some socially distanced freedoms. It's hard to constantly hear how I'm messing up my DC's mental health, when I'm trying to do the exact opposite.

I still find myself in disbelief at how covid has made people just so outright mean, its given people an excuse to judge strangers and I hate it.

My local fb page is full of "I saw a teenager out without a mask!" Followed by comments about how they should confront him, or make a sarcastic comment about him not wearing one. Dare to mention how they may be exempt & you're met with harsh disbelief that a teenager could possibly be exempt.

At the beginning all the crazy over someone sitting on a bloody bench and suggesting cheese in coffee. This is not normal, even during a public health crisis (and this isnt the first one in recent memory, but of course no one remembers the 2017/18 flu season) you just dont go around accusing people of murdering grannies by shopping twice a week!

I find I have lost respect for many people, and I am sad to realise that we are capable of society becoming a nazi/hand maiden state as too many people would throw their fellow neighbours under the bus for behaving "normally".

I know for me, I have become more resilient and more aware of what matters to me & what doesnt. What matters to me is being social, connecting with friends and family. I used to think I was a homebody and could take or leave socialising but now I know that isnt the case. Never again will I accept being told I can't see my own mum, I'm ashamed that I agreed to it in the first place.

If you don't want to be around ill mannered oiks, no problem, don't fly on that type of plane.

Maybe take as a baseline the premise that “oiks” (love your cute terminology) shouldn’t be allowed to rule the world?

Unless people have the virus (or their family) then we have changed our selves not the virus

@RegularHumanBartender

If you fall off a rock then you aren't going to feel guilty for making others ill

Did people ever feel guilty about passing on flu, or any other virus? Why is it only passing on Covid that matters?

I would imagine that anyone who has ever passed the flu onto an elderly relative, who has then died of the flu, felt awful about it - surely? You think not?

And in the case of Covid, where people have been specifically warned that it has a more deadly effect on the elderly, and that elderly people should be avoided, then they are going to feel even worse. Seems logical to me.

@ravenmum hmm, yes and no. I know of several people in their 80's who have said that they want to live not exist and will take their chances with Covid. I think they have that right to choose. They know they're in their twilight years and face mortality every day anyway. What they don't want to do is spend their final years not seeing their grandchildren.

We see my PIL's now and have done for some time. They're 86, my MIL has 1 kidney due to cancer and asthma. She has chosen to see us, we have not forced it on her. They were lonely and fed up. Now they're happy. As my MIL says, she never expected to make 80 so every day is a bonus.

Imagine I got Covid, gave it to her and she died. Would I feel guilty? Well of course I would! But we literally sat and had that conversation with them and they overtly told us they didn't want to live their isolated life anymore so I guess she's preemptively forgiven me!

"Did people ever feel guilty about passing on flu"

Well yes if it killed your mum/your colleague/your midwife. One of my colleagues died of flu 2 years ago (he was 42) and another was ill for 6 weeks. If I'd knowingly gone in to the office sick and infected them I'd feel wracked with guilt.

We had an outbreak of cv in our office in March and I've had 2 people apologise for infecting me even though there's no way of knowing if they even did.

I am in the older age bracket - nearing seventy now, and I have 3 underlying health issues. I am also ethnic minority, and so I am well aware that if I catch coronovirus it is likely to kill me. So yes, I am changed. More anxious about everything in general, and sad about not being able to visit my far away grandchildren as I used to do. I hope there will be an effective vaccine in the future.

"Did people ever feel guilty about passing on flu?"

As ever, it would depend on the context. If you deliberately and knowingly went up to someone and coughed in their face then yes, feel guilty. If you didn't know you had flu yet, or you didn't know the person was vulnerable or you'd tried to mitigate the situation then it would be natural but not fair on yourself to feel guilty.

I had suspected Covid early on - at the time I was told I wasn't at risk because I hadn't come in from an infected country and I hadn't been in contact with a known case, so I carried on as normal. I was around all manner of people with significant health problems and/or issues which we now know are co-morbid with Covid. I followed the instructions I was given at the time and it would be awful to think that any of them got ill on the back of my infection but it's not like I went round licking them.

I'm sad for a lost way of life that was needless. The (over)reaction and sheeple tendencies of the majority scare me more than the virus. And as someone said upthread, the lack of critical thinking is truly terrifying. This doesn't bode well for all the other shite that will undoubtedly come our way via our esteemed world leaders.

Personally, it hasn't affected me much but I feel for the kids. A significant amount of their childhood/teenage years this last while has been nothing but division: Independence referendum, Brexit, Covid. Not receiving a proper education. It's shite for them.

I'll take my chances and get on with living rather than worry about dying. So many other things kill us but the media has a lot to answer for with their rolling scaremongering for viewing figures. I've witnessed normally sane, coherent, intelligent people be reduced to a constant fear of panic and anxiety.

Covid will indirectly kill more people because of our reaction to it than directly from the disease itself.

I agree that it's natural to feel guilt even if you couldn't have known or helped it, and even if someone specifically said they would forgive you.

I simply witnessed a suicide many years ago, and felt briefly guilty even though I had nothing to do with it - as if I should have helped this unknown person, when I couldn't have. Others feel survivor guilt. Guilt can be weird.

I would imagine that at the moment you fell off a rock, and it looked like you might die, then you might feel guilty towards your loved ones about not having been more careful. A couple of times in my life, I've put myself in a risky situation through carelessness and felt that way. But you're not directly risking your loved ones' lives, only your own.

Right in the middle of lockdown I had to help an elderly lady who was ill in the street - it involved holding her close to me to stop her from falling on her head. Afterwards I realised that I could have had Covid and passed it onto her - and felt bad that I hadn't considered that, even though obviously I couldn't have let her fall on her head either!

@ravenmum I remember talking to someone about them being a first-aider and how concerned they were about giving mouth to mouth resuscitation because they could pass on Covid. I pointed out that if I needed resuscitating, Covid was the least of my issues at that moment!

I feel for those who have relatives in care homes where there is minimal visiting. My mum in her late 80s with dementia (luckily, and I use the term advisedly) died pre-Covid. I would rather that she had lived for two months getting her normal visits than a year shut off from her family.

@Vintagevixen

We wouldn't be writing off a whole section of society though - we can still shield the vulnerable/elderly. I don't think anyone is advocating a bonfire of the vulnerable. Merely pointing out that Covid, rather like death, is ageist.

The idea of locking down the healthy was IMO always mad and I do think we should be allowing the young/less clinically at risk to resume a normal life (with caveats if in a multi generational household, working with vulnerable groups etc.) As I say I was always more a fan of the Swedish approach, though they got it wrong on care homes like we did.

You want to shut millions of people away for years?

Possibly their last few years if they are older? What about their jobs if they're not?

And then allow the virus free rein to make it vastly more dangerous for them when they do have to come out for medical and dental appointments and haircuts etc?

And what about the people who don't know they are vulnerable? Or don't qualify for wherever the line is drawn?

@Zany15 I'm sorry you can't see your GC. I too hope for an effective vaccine so everyone can get back to something more like normal life. We might have a problem with the antivax crowd but I'll have the vaccine for sure

@ChavvySexPond but 'shutting away millions for years' is a moot point surely? What is happening just now for example is that this group in society are kind of in lockdown anyway because they are shielding. I'm not trying deliberately to lack empathy, I'm just trying to be logical and scientific about it. So do the healthy sit in lockdown with them waiting for something to pass which may take years ergo the entire population is shut away indefinitely. Or do you let the healthy out to keep the show on the road so that there is something to come out to when the danger has passed?

I know more about myself than I did before.

Also if you asked me if I wanted to wfh for 5 days a week in February I'd have said no way. Now I do 4 at home and 1 day in the office. Much happier now I've adjusted.

I also can see how nuts a pandemic can make people. I'm thinking of the MN'er who told me bread and milk were not essentials I should go to the shop for 🤣

@MrsFezziwig

I feel for those who have relatives in care homes where there is minimal visiting. My mum in her late 80s with dementia (luckily, and I use the term advisedly) died pre-Covid. I would rather that she had lived for two months getting her normal visits than a year shut off from her family.

I was allowed to visit my mum (once). It was horrible . I had to wear a mask and sit at the opposite end of a long table . My mum has quite advanced dementia and she didn't even realise who I was until I pulled the mask down . The home has now gone back into lockdown and visits in person no longer allowed but in a way I'm glad it's taken the decision from me if I should visit like this again. At least with video link she can see me .

It has definitely changed me. I have become aware of how certain people in society are viewed as lesser in some circles. I've been shocked at how often the disabled or ill or old have been dismissed as expendable. My eyes have been opened to the very fragile state that society is in. I have also seen amazing kindness from some people and also been shocked at the attitudes of certain people close to me who have just carried on as normal and shown themselves to be incredibly self-centred. I am sad as I know that this realisation will impact my future.

No I don't want to shut millions of people away for years. Thats not what I suggested at all. Give them the information needed to assess their own risk and decide what they want to do, support them if needed.

Then let the healthy go free and build up immunity via antibody and T cell immunity. Plus keep something resembling society going. Ultimately this will benefit the at risk groups when sufficient immunity levels lowers their risk.

My own parents (in their 80's) have decided not to waste their last years in fear, and are going out and about as normal.

I’ve seen some lovely community spirit especially during the height of lockdown.

Sadly, I’ve also seen a lot of people who think the rules/guidelines don’t apply to them, many of which I thought weren’t capable of such behaviour. I’ve definitely reassessed some friendships.

@Zany15
In the same age bracket as you with underlying health conditions also.
I battle every day but refuse to be put in a box .
Me and my dh can look back on this time and say we lived it.
We’ve lived as normally as society as let us.
Gone to supermarkets, town centre when only 8 shops open, went to the beach most days, country park, parks. I drove everywhere in lockdown.
We took drinks and picnics. While we didn’t have a blast always, we lived it.
Saw family a couple of times a week.
I know of one person in my town that had it. He was 77 and a friend with horrendous underlying conditions, marfans, heart and lung problems, caught it in hospital and recovered.
Said it wasn’t as bad as when he caught flu and pneumonia about 5 years ago.
Over the years I’ve learnt as much as I could about natural health and healing. I’ve been scoffed at on here many times, but I don’t give a flying fuck.

I’ve stayed well over all. I cured a toothache from hell when all dentists were shut, that woke me in the night with pain in my trigeminal nerve, shooting up to my eye and down my neck.
It took a month to sort it but it’s fine now.
I read and learn as much as I can about herbs, what to take to help various symptoms.
I may not be 100 per cent but I’m on no medication with normal blood pressure and what’s more important, if something crops up, I have a good chance of sorting it out while waiting to see if a doctor will see you.
I’m going for a blood test next week as I haven’t had one for two years and I occasionally get very fatigued.
I suspect I have a low level infection ( mild tummy bug) that I haven’t quite shifted yet so I’ll see what doc says.

For an older lass I’m doing ok

@Vintagevixen
Good for your parents.
I applaud them and I too am like minded

Here’s a young woman who in ten years has made the most incredible achievements whilst being severely disabled.

I was very impressed with her thought on living while dying.
My dil, an icu nurse also had a conversation with her the other day.
My dil trains carers to look after severely disabled/ ventilated clients

@IwishIwasyoda
Sweetheart, why are you torturing yourself.
You’ve done your best.
You’ve tried.
Now just don’t wear one.
You don’t have to.
I was in my town centre yesterday and at the beginning I was one of a very few non mask wearers, now it’s looking more like 20 per dent.
We are meant to breathe oxygen, not our stale breath through damp soggy fabric , the holes in the threads are big enough for the virus to pass through anyway.
If people want to wear a mask let them, their choice. Just don’t push it onto me.