For considering forward facing a two year old...

[RowboatsinDisguise]

I recently took DS’s ERF car seat out and gave the covers a good scrub and rinse as with potty training (wee only!) and general life debris they were utterly rank. In the meantime we’ve been using a spare group 1 FF seat. I much prefer it! It’s about a million times easier to strap him in (being heavily pregnant this is a massive factor), he’s happier chatting to me and seeing what’s going on, if he starts shouting I can work out why pretty much immediately... it’s just so much more pleasant for both of us!

Is it really so awful to want to keep him FF? I know why ERF is recommended. I’ve seen the crash tests. I know the stats. But I also know that the overall likelihood of being in a crash remains low and that forwards facing seats do still provide protection. I just don’t know what to do now!

But they are no more cramped rear facing!

Honestly people who complain about this never seem to have even seen a rear facing seat! Why wouldn't you listen to people who have?

@bluecoffeecups kids are flexible, and unless people are driving for hours at a time every day, I doubt any kids would suffer. Having dangling legs can be more uncomfortable.

Just read some of the thread. Heated discussion on car seats! I have a mate who goes on about this on FB who I muted because it's v. boring. Why am I reading it here? What is wrong with me? I don't even own a car and my son is 5ft10

I'm genuinely interested as I don't know how it works. Does the seat back extend for larger children so you can still recline the seat for young babies?

@whirlwindwallaby

£275 is a weekly wage in the real world.

And?

It's your child's safety for years. Is it nit worth it to you?

[quote qwertypie]@bluecoffeecups kids are flexible, and unless people are driving for hours at a time every day, I doubt any kids would suffer. Having dangling legs can be more uncomfortable.[/quote]
It won't cause their joints to malform though will it? And sitting for long periods with cramped-up legs is known to cause thrombosis in some people.

A long time ago, within my memory but probably before many of you were born, there was a massive hoo-ha regarding the newly-invented stroller. As it happened, it turned out that sitting in a particular design of stroller for long periods could cause spinal problems.

Whirlwind the ones I'm talking about are generally 9-25kg, so they don't go quite that reclined because they aren't designed for young babies. Usually you would use an infant carrier and then move into these kinds of seat around 12-18 months old, although I really think they are best suited for 2 year olds and over.

You don't really extend the seat back as such, they tend to be taller to start out with, to accommodate a larger child.

Those larger RF seats sit more upright than the baby carriers or spin seats which can rear face, so you can fit them in smaller spaces, including small cars. There is a crunch point if you have a very small car and a very tall driver/passenger, so you might have to make decisions about whose leg room to sacrifice, but sometimes I can't help thinking people are just playing devil's advocate. Plenty of people change their car once they have children because they need more space. And if you struggle to fit an ERF seat in you've likely also struggled to fit the infant seat in before that.

I do think it's true that people are sometimes obtuse about this. Someone mentioned not being able to get one in a Suzuki Alto - that's true, but we also couldn't get a FF seat in the Alto with the right clearance from the front seat and also get a passenger in the front (which didn't really matter for us because it was a second car that we have now, thankfully, been able to get rid of as now neither of us have to drive to work or to DS's nursery so we never both went in the Alto at once). You couldn't possibly have put any kind of seat behind the driver's seat, including an infant seat. Ultimately it's just not a family car.

@AngelSings

FF the moment son turned 1. No regrets. Do what is best for you. There's advice and there's the law, so as long as you follow the latter you'll be just fine.

Oh it's good to know that the LAW makes a child safe in a CAR ACCIDENT.

Jesus wept.

It's the SEAT, not the law, that makes them safe, RESEARCH has determined RF is safer, why would you think the law is 'good enough' when science says otherwise??

@MJMG2015 why do you care so much that other people do things differently?

If people obey the law then you have no moral higher ground on which to stand. You might be a more risk averse parent, but doesn't equate to those who FF at 1 year poor parents.

Just like it doesn't make those who enjoy a glass of wine during pregnancy, use formula or controlled crying inferior parents.

Seriously, there are other things toward which you can direct your ire surely?

It's your child's safety for years. Is it nit worth it to you?
If you don't have the money you don't have the money. I think I did the best I could in my circumstances and many parents are in a similar position. I bought what I thought was a good seat, it wasn't the cheapest, about £100, which lasted from birth until my child outgrew it at 5. He then was in a booster until 10 and 138cm, none of his classmates were.

You don't need to spend £275 on a rear facing seat, the cheapest ones are £70. I have no idea why people constantly suggest the minikid as an "affordable" option, it's not, it's a luxury option. There are forward facing seats for a similar price. Axkid make a cheaper seat for about half the usual price of the minikid too.

The really bizarre inconsistency is that there's a huge overlap between ERF zealots and attachment parenting - so apparently if I let DS cry for any other reason (say, so we can all get some sleep) it'll permanently psychologically damage him and I'm a terrible parent, but if I do it in the car, even for hours on end, he won't be damaged because he'll know that it's just for his own safety, and it's just a rubbish excuse for me being a crap parent that I'd rather he didn't cry hysterically on every journey?

Also the same people who think pushing a child in a buggy facing outwards is cruel because they can’t see your face.

It would be far more logical to criticise people for driving all the way to Cornwall for a holiday when Weston Super Mare would be perfectly fine and significantly reduce any risks by avoiding 300 miles of road.

So you can get say a £40 capsule, then a £70 ERF seat now? That's great! I wanted my child to be as safe as possible, as I think most parents do, but not everyone can change their car or afford a £275 seat.

We RF but in the front seat.

Means DS is RF but can see me and chat to me

@ScarMatty I'm tempted to do this, especially as I'm expecting our 2nd next month and think it might get a chance of sleeping in the back without my toddler 'singing' - but does anyone else ever use the passenger seat? Is it a ballache to move it?

RF to 4 years. Why wouldn’t you secure your child in the safest position when driving?

[quote OhToBeASeahorse]@ScarMatty I'm tempted to do this, especially as I'm expecting our 2nd next month and think it might get a chance of sleeping in the back without my toddler 'singing' - but does anyone else ever use the passenger seat? Is it a ballache to move it?[/quote]
The ballache is turning the airbags on/off according to whether the baby or an adult is in the passenger seat. Forget to change it just once and the consequences could be lethal.

Yes cheapest baby capsule is around £35-40.

The £70 ERF only goes up to 18kg, so wouldn't do if you wanted to rear face up to 25kg. It is suitable from birth though, so you could skip the baby capsule if you didn't need/want the carry factor.

The cheapest 25kg ERF currently is £160. But even RF to 18kg will get you past the most dangerous period, and then there are now seats which harness up to 25kg if your child is too young to booster at 18kg, starting at £80 and mostly converting to booster seats for later.

If you're on a v tight budget you could do the following combos:

Child on low centiles -
Birth - 18kg Joie Tilt £70
Booster seat Britax Adventure £30-40
Total £100-110

Child on average/higher centiles, some ERF:
Birth - 18kg Joie Tilt £70
Harness 25kg + booster Cozy n Safe Hudson £80
Total £150

Maxed out ERF:
Birth - 13kg Joie Juva / Nania Beone £35-40
1y - 25kg RF Britax Two Way Elite £160
Booster seat Britax Adventure £30-40
Total £240

There is also a newish seat called BabyAuto Dupla, which is suitable from birth right to 12 years, ERF to 18kg, Extended harness to 25kg (forward facing) and then booster. Isofix too. I do not know how it performs safety wise, and I don't know how well it fits either newborns or a booster aged child, but it's £140 and I'd definitely use it for the middle stages.

@HavelockVetinari during the week its unlikely that an adult would be in it, but I take your point.

It is probably more practical to RF in the front when the seat is one which is left (semi) permanently installed. That way at least it would be a big event when you moved it so in theory you'd remember to switch on/off. For a baby in the carry seats, less so. And good point, actually. Well worth considering.

" I do think it's true that people are sometimes obtuse about this. Someone mentioned not being able to get one in a Suzuki Alto - that's true, but we also couldn't get a FF seat in the Alto with the right clearance from the front seat and also get a passenger in the front (which didn't really matter for us because it was a second car that we have now, thankfully, been able to get rid of as now neither of us have to drive to work or to DS's nursery so we never both went in the Alto at once). You couldn't possibly have put any kind of seat behind the driver's seat, including an infant seat. Ultimately it's just not a family car."

Very strange. I had a Suzuki Alto for years and easily fitted various types of car seats in ff. Our second car was also small, Fiat ciquento and also fitted 2 different size car seats in that, both with a passenger in front and buggies in the boot.

@BertieBotts tech that's true. We have the Minikid (after your recommendation!) which is great but in honesty I wouldnt fancy moving it for every weekend. The only other thing I could do would be buy 2 others for our 2nd car (which is smaller) but that seems mad

"18:37bluecoffeecups

I wonder how long it will be before joint problems in children start to become associated with sitting in cramped-up positions in car seats so frequently when they were younger."
I agree. I'm sure not many adults would want to sit at such an angle that their legs face upwards at over 45 degrees and their legs up in the air for any length of time.