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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

999 replies

2fallsagain · 31/08/2020 08:17

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

OP posts:
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JamieLeeCurtains · 01/09/2020 13:43

@HandfulofDust

God I didn't realise so many pearl clutching morons still existed. Every primary school child should be confident using these words. If you haven't taught them to your child then you've failed a bit as a parent and put your child at unnecessary risk. Whether they learn them from a dice or elsewhere is for the teachers to decide. You're clearly just being hysterical and illogical.
Bless. The chill pills not working today? Nor your reading and comprehension skills?

You forgot to accuse posters of being Karens.

Miriel · 01/09/2020 13:44

HandfulofDust

Sarcasm?

(I'm really hoping so, and not that you actually think primary school children should be taught about putting penises or objects into anuses, but given that this toolkit exists, it's hard to tell.)

NiceGerbil · 01/09/2020 13:50

13-17 yo aren't having gender reassignment though.

Does this relate to having sex with an older person who has then?

Is there another read on that?

I was thinking of them potentially having encounters with kids of a similar age :/

And no I didn't explain to my kids in primary school all the things on that grid, no.

Clymene · 01/09/2020 14:01

@HandfulofDust

God I didn't realise so many pearl clutching morons still existed. Every primary school child should be confident using these words. If you haven't taught them to your child then you've failed a bit as a parent and put your child at unnecessary risk. Whether they learn them from a dice or elsewhere is for the teachers to decide. You're clearly just being hysterical and illogical.
Yes, silly me. I should have taught my kids about docking when they were in KS2! Pearl clutching moron that I am Hmm
GilbertMarkham · 01/09/2020 14:02

Every primary school child should be confident using these words. If you haven't taught them to your child then you've failed a bit as a parent and put your child at unnecessary risk. Whether they learn them from a dice or elsewhere is for the teachers to decide.

Well you'd definitely have to independently teach them the word Clitoris - since it doesn't exist in this teaching method. The single most important female sex organ (aside from the brain), also now known to be responsible for vaginal orgasms; and it didn't exist according to this game.

Or did you miss that part while calling people morons and hysterical (interesting choice of word there).

Clymene · 01/09/2020 14:03

@NiceGerbil

13-17 yo aren't having gender reassignment though.

Does this relate to having sex with an older person who has then?

Is there another read on that?

I was thinking of them potentially having encounters with kids of a similar age :/

And no I didn't explain to my kids in primary school all the things on that grid, no.

I don't know. And I don't know why anyone would package up girls' trauma of forced mutilation of their genitalia as genital variation either.

I think we just have to keep asking: 'who does this benefit?' I don't know the answers but I'm absolutely sure it's not the children it's purporting to educate

BovaryX · 01/09/2020 14:03

Writing on their website’s blog, Training and Education Manager, Rachel Williams says “Primary school work is a massively growing area for us, with the term “age-appropriate” being banded around a lot.” She offers no evidence for what age-appropriate means when talking about different sexual orientations except to deny that “lesbian” is a word with any sexual element. It’s clear when looking at their “trans-inclusive” primary school resource for KS2 pupils, children aged 7-11, that age-appropriate has no meaning and that they consider seven to be old enough to learn about transgenderism

This is from littlebrowndog's link. I wonder how this period of history will be judged by those looking back at it?

GilbertMarkham · 01/09/2020 14:05

If I teach my child words for sex organs and sexual activities, I'll do so myself or use decent resources .. I won't be leaving it to penis and anus men resptesenting minority orientation/identity groups who are apparently unaware of the existence of the clitoris to do it.

GilbertMarkham · 01/09/2020 14:06

*penis and anus fixated men

SoManyActivities · 01/09/2020 14:06

God I didn't realise so many pearl clutching morons still existed.

ODFOD

That dice game is basically teaching kids about a series of holes and things you can stick in them. And like others have said, the clitoris isn't even on there - why not if its sooooo important that primary aged kids know these words?

borntobequiet · 01/09/2020 14:08

@HandfulofDust

God I didn't realise so many pearl clutching morons still existed. Every primary school child should be confident using these words. If you haven't taught them to your child then you've failed a bit as a parent and put your child at unnecessary risk. Whether they learn them from a dice or elsewhere is for the teachers to decide. You're clearly just being hysterical and illogical.
Never a good idea to tell an audience of (mostly) women they’re hysterical and illogical. You’re a bit clueless, aren’t you?
borntobequiet · 01/09/2020 14:09

Or I didn’t pick up on the sarcasm (being charitable).

lakesidesummer · 01/09/2020 14:11

I don't think that refusing to accept that people who seem totally unaware that women have different physical bodies to men are the best people to provide sex education makes me a pearl clutching hysterical moron to be fair.

But this choice of language tells me all I need to know.

Reubenshat · 01/09/2020 14:14

@MrsToothyBitch

This game concerns me on so many levels.

I do think sex education needs to cover all bases in terms of safety and hygiene as well as puberty and reproduction - and safety and hygiene may now be a broader field than previous, whether we like it or not. However, children also need to know about consent, sexual connection, pleasure, the dangers of porn, sexting etc. These are fundamental and need to be covered to put sexual activity in context. I see no definite opportunity for discussion of any of these things, it's a totally warped perception. I'm sure there are people who discuss these things whilst using the dice, but not the people who designed them, most tellingly.

Despite my earlier assertion that there is a wider field to cover these days, some of the combinations in this game are also likely beyond the ken of many teens and it's just something they perhaps don't need to know. Teens are suggestible. I don't think they need a game to explore what could be covered implicitly via safety and hygiene and consent discussion- rather than suggesting that anus -to-vulva is mainstream and that they SHOULD be doing it. Similarly, whilst teens hear all sorts, the Warwickshire website puts out information that I didn't know as an experienced adult- because it's niche and NOT everyone does it. It's too much.

I also have serious concerns about who ever came up with this as a concept for schools and teens. Not only is it less nuanced, inclusive and helpful for discussion starting than the actual game it is based upon, but I agree with Pp saying that if a teen came into school saying they'd played this with an adult, there would be a safeguarding investigation. If teachers - or outsourced SRE presenters do it, it's fine. Given the presentation and the way the activity seems designed to flow, surely this sets an incredibly vague, unsolid and somewhat shady boundary for young people, as well as being an incredibly bizarre discussion to have with a teacher. I therefore have concerns about the minds that came up with this idea as acceptable. I also wonder when they last came into contact with teenagers or considered a classroom and how the average class will take this activity. In my experience, teenagers just like to be treated as adults, too and would rather just have a chat. I also can't imagine this working in mixed sex groups- uber embarrassing- or doing anything to put shyer teens at ease, either, in an already awkward situation.

Looking at the content provider, too, I have concerns about the agenda with which they will have approached this task. An LGBT organisation will have a priority audience whilst covering a topic which needs to speak to all young people equally, no matter what their orientation- safe sex is safe sex, consent is universal. Further more- and equally as worrying in itself and as part of a wider trend- within the demographic they claim to serve, the dice and activity have a male-centric skew, unacceptably prioritising men, knowledge of the male body and male pleasure over that of women. This presents a worrying, inadequate view of heterosexual sex and lesbian sex- especially with no context.
Those dice do not contain breasts, nipples or, most importantly, the clitoris as options; Pps who counted have verified that female anatomy options come up less often than male options, too. How does this educate about the female body, female pleasure, looking after the female body or provide the level of info or opportunity for young lesbians (the L in LGBT, after all) that their male counterparts receive in the same session? This is the erosion of the female, yet again.

Also, as a woman who paid for this via the tampon tax, I am truly upset. How does this ridiculous activity serve the needs of women and girls? Having gone to an all girls school and then received female only sex-ed at a mixed sixth form, a male body centric programme would have taught us very little about ourselves or given us a healthy perspective and the man-on-man combinations on the dice would have been pointless. What a let down.

I agree with every thing you have written
Whatwouldscullydo · 01/09/2020 14:15

It would seen odd would it not that women who throughout history fought for the rights to education , birth control, loss of stigma surrounding sex where to this day in some parts of the world women are killed even when raped or mutilated so men can be sure of their "purity", were suddenly "hysterical" over it all?

Maybe just maybe there's something not quite right here...

twoHopes · 01/09/2020 14:15

I genuinely wonder if the person who made this has ever had sex. Rubbing a vulva on an anus? Rubbing two anuses together? What? I'm struggling to understand how let alone why?!

GilbertMarkham · 01/09/2020 14:15

*I don't think that refusing to accept that people who seem totally unaware that women have different physical bodies to men are the best people to provide sex education makes me a pearl clutching hysterical moron to be fair.

But this choice of language tells me all I need to know.*

X 100

MillyMollyFarmer · 01/09/2020 14:17

HandfulofDust I genuinely hope you’re being sarcastic rather than what you wrote being what you think because it sounds creepy, irresponsible and a major failing in child safeguarding. At the very least I hope you’re not a parent or teacher. If you’re ignoring actual sex ed teachers specific concerns on this material and calling them pearl clutching morons, you are a huge concern with red flags all over you.

SoManyActivities · 01/09/2020 14:19

Yes, do people really rub their bum holes together during sex? What is the point of that?! And even if they do, why do 13 year old kids need to know about it?

Reubenshat · 01/09/2020 14:21

@HandfulofDust

God I didn't realise so many pearl clutching morons still existed. Every primary school child should be confident using these words. If you haven't taught them to your child then you've failed a bit as a parent and put your child at unnecessary risk. Whether they learn them from a dice or elsewhere is for the teachers to decide. You're clearly just being hysterical and illogical.
@HandfulofDust

So your ok with discussing ‘docking’ as that’s in the ‘game’ too. You might be ok with that but I really dont want my 13 year old discussing putting their penis in to another boys foreskin or group sex.

If that makes me a pearl clutcher - I’m ok with that.

Reubenshat · 01/09/2020 14:25

@MillyMollyFarmer

HandfulofDust I genuinely hope you’re being sarcastic rather than what you wrote being what you think because it sounds creepy, irresponsible and a major failing in child safeguarding. At the very least I hope you’re not a parent or teacher. If you’re ignoring actual sex ed teachers specific concerns on this material and calling them pearl clutching morons, you are a huge concern with red flags all over you.
I think what some posters are doing is quick scanning and not really looking at the material as a whole because if they’d bothered to look at the links and the link to the instructions I think they’d be quite disturbed at level of sexual activity the kids are being given to discuss.
BovaryX · 01/09/2020 14:25

@NotBadConsidering

To me “Hold your nerve!” translates as:

“Your inner alarm bells may start going off like crazy at how inappropriate this all is but unless you push through that you’ll get labelled as a bigot and you wouldn’t want that would you? So keep schtum.”

I agree. Why on earth are 13 year old kids being exhorted to hold their nerve by adults in the context of sex education at school? As you correctly state, 'hold your nerve' suggests something reckless or frightening is happening. If the sex education material requires an instruction to 'hold your nerve?' Something is seriously f$cked up.
GilbertMarkham · 01/09/2020 14:29

I'm also pissed off at the representation of anal sex as a norm. It was be we a norm.for heterosexual people to have anal sex. It's become a norm in porn in the last ten years (maybe). Porn is not real sex. I feel like women are increasingly being expected and pressured to have anal sex as well as vaginal and I can't think of that as a good thing. When it comes to heterosexual couples, the women are the ones being the brunt of trying to make it comfortable and of the increased risk of STDs and tears etc due to it being an orifice not developed for penetration. Also the risk of later incontinence if it's regular etc. Not the men. Just like they already bear the brunt of contraception implications. (And they're more likely to be infected with STDs due to physical factors).

So teaching female and male for that matter children about anal sex as though it's a absolute norm .. I find disturbing.
It's men who practice anal sex because they are gay, bi or trans pushing it as a norm because it's a norm for them.

(Not to say some men don't, I knew a gay guy who didn't - he found it too difficult/uncomfortable (surprise surprise) and he and his partner chose not to).

GilbertMarkham · 01/09/2020 14:30

*It was never a norm for heterosexual people to have anal sex

MillyMollyFarmer · 01/09/2020 14:33

It’s not a norm for them though, it’s an expectation.