AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

@veza09 Couldn’t agree more. We need to trust our teachers to do their job and know the children they are teaching. If that game is inappropriate for the class or doesn’t promote learning, teachers won’t use it and will choose something else to promote appropriate discussion in line with the curriculum. Honestly, the idea that teachers are using these tools to groom children are ridiculous. (Of course there have been teachers who have lost their job for that sort of thing but they don’t need a bloody dice if that’s what they’re intent on doing).

That said, I think it’s fine to contact the school to ask how it’s being taught. Maybe not right now though as they have a lot on their plate!

@LolaSmiles

This won't be used as a lesson alone It doesn't matter.

If anything using a game that entirely ignores safeguarding and boundaries in the same lesson as talking about consent is a bit creepy as the message is 'you don't have to engage in anything sexual if you aren't comfortable with it... Unless it involves someone in a position of authority dressing sexual content up as a game in which case you're expected to go along with it because it's just a laugh right, don't be so uptight, I've been understanding because you don't have to roll the dice, but you still have to be subjected to the same explicit content.'

So what do you want them to do? Sre lessons are about safety, consent, a safe environment for open and honest discussions that frankly a lot of kids lack at home. Start the lesson show of hands who wants to know about piv? Great everyone who doesn't stand outside... come back who wants to know about anal? Great everyone who doesn't off you go? Sre lessons are supposed to give children information about all the aspects they need to know to keep safe, healthy and about consent. The game isn't the lesson it's one tool to opening up a discussion. A child by the time they're 13 will have probably already seen porn, heard the way others talk about it, know that some kids pressure other kids to do what they've seen. Being a teenager right now in the age of technology is bloody hard. They're bombarded with so much, a child will probably know what anal is before this lesson, they'll know so much but in the abstract (hopefully not have personal experience although some are sexually actively) they know the physics but not the consent, not the safety. If the dice was rolled and penis and anus came up it would open the conversation that it is distinct from piv, consent must be sought individually for everything, consent must be ongoing and active, safety aspects of different types of sex are so important, rather than see porn try it yourself culture we've got. Also teachers know their classes they wouldn't use this tool if they thought it would offend or upset the kids, it just an aid to conversation, conversations that need to be had, we need to teach our children that sex doesn't mean do anything you want to someone, which is what porn portrays, they need to know what they are consenting to or what they don't want to consent to. Sre is basically fighting porn culture at this point. With my previous example of my re lesson should I have not answered the questions about porn etc as I didn't get consent off every child in the room they might not of wanted to hear the word anal or cum? Should we continue to allow children to get their information primarily from porn and continue to pressure each other into sexual acts they've seen on their phone else be labelled frigid? The dice would be a tiny part of a lesson many teachers probably wouldn't use it, but might keep the table where they can see it to aid answering questions. It would depend very much on the class set up, I know I certainly would've have used it with my last yr11 if I was teaching in a mixed sex class as some of the boys would've taken the opportunity to try and embarrass the girls, however if it was that same class split into girls and boys I might've done to start the conversation about what they see in porn vs consent.

@VashtaNerada

That said, I think it’s fine to contact the school to ask how it’s being taught. Maybe not right now though as they have a lot on their plate!

Definitely! I think all parents should actually receive sre curricula and resources do they can see what is being taught and how! Parents need to be actively involved in the sex Ed of their child, unfortunately many aren't and are too embarrassed to discuss it. If I were in charge of sre I'd be inviting parents in regularly to see what I was teaching and the resources used.

VashtaNerada
I don't think that teachers would be using the game to groom children. I think organisations with their own agendas design SRE material that can be superficially presented as 'a fun way to talk about an awkward topic' and some schools see the offer of free resources/speakers from outside organisations as a way to tick the SRE box without doing much close scrutiny of hidden ideologies.

Take this game:
View 1: It's just a harmless game. Teens will probably have seen hardcore porn by 11 so if a game makes the topic more engaging then surely that's better than students not getting any sex ed other than porn. Surely it's the teacher's job to use this game alongside the rest of their teaching to make sure it's appropriate and engaging.

View 2: Does a game where children are pushed into discussing sex acts in explicit detail add anything to appropriate sex education? No, so there's no need for any teacher to use a game that ignores safeguarding and places pupils in a situation where they are subjected to explicit sexual content.

The organisations trying to disregard safeguarding and boundaries are relying on people assuming their nice free/reduced material is in the first camp, whilst branding anyone in the second camp as a prude or a bigot.

[quote VashtaNerada]@veza09 Couldn’t agree more. We need to trust our teachers to do their job and know the children they are teaching. If that game is inappropriate for the class or doesn’t promote learning, teachers won’t use it and will choose something else to promote appropriate discussion in line with the curriculum. Honestly, the idea that teachers are using these tools to groom children are ridiculous. (Of course there have been teachers who have lost their job for that sort of thing but they don’t need a bloody dice if that’s what they’re intent on doing).[/quote]
Teachers are often told which resources to use and not given a choice. Sex Ed is often delivered by non specialists (to tutor groups or a PSHE lesson that has crept onto their timetable - I’m a Maths teacher and have delivered lots of PSHE over the years), and these teachers rely on the resources they’ve been given and may not have the confidence to discard them and wing the lesson.
No one is implying that individual teachers would use these resources to groom children. I suspect many (even experienced) teachers would be dismayed at the prospect of using them. But people are concerned that there is a form of grooming at societal level, where these unpleasant resources and demeaning and dehumanising ideology is promoted by a number of influential groups.

borntobequiet
You're right.
It's part of the drip drip drip of normalising the erosion of boundaries and unfortunately some teachers have drank the KoolAid and think that this is liberating rather than a safeguarding concern.

I worked with a scheme that helped teenagers get access to contraception and feel very comfortable discussing sex and relationships. It's precisely because of that experience that I feel so uncomfortable with some of the materials being presented as appropriate SRE.

@ILoveFood87

I was fuming when my 11 year olds class got told wanking is normal. Not saying it's not but to 10 and 11 year olds pissed me off. YANBU.

Why did your 11yo not already know it's normal?? My 6yo knows it's normal and nothing to be ashamed of. He also knows its something he does in private. He also knows that it's his penis and no-one else should be touching it and if they do he can tell Mummy or Daddy and we won't be cross at him. He knows that it's his body and if he doesn't want someone to touch him then he can say so.

This is why it's important for children to have sex education in school, there are far too many parents who refuse to talk to their children about these things which does make it easier for them to be groomed. (Including older girls/boys being coerced in to sex acts they don't want to perform), or thinking sex is something dirty.

its so important that girls hear formally from teachers in fun based group activities the ways they can be penetrated (and nothing about breasts/clitoris)

this way they can focus exclusively on pleasuring men and when their first date tries to stick it up their arse, they know that it is fun, normal and expected of them.

Maybe the majority of teachers wouldn't use it to groom children, but it's a kind of super-grooming. It's giving young teens the message that their early sex lives will include fisting and anal sex, and that the clitoris, breasts and nipples aren't actually important erogenous zones. This is the beginning of eroding boundaries and teaching that male pleasure is all that's important, consent is by the by, and if it hurts, use some lube you prude.

This is the opposite of my sex life when young btw, which was a lot about my breasts (wish they still got those amazing sensations from them!!) and my orgasms. And as many PPs have said, I've generally had a great non-prudish orgasmic sex life, that has never really involved fisting or anal. Oh and a teacher didn't need to tell me how to do sex. As a young person, I wanted adults as far from my sex life as possible. It was private.

We need to trust our teachers to do their job and know the children they are teaching

NO we should not blindly trust adults with the sex education of our young children. Absolutely fucking not. Your child’s safeguarding is also your concern. Always. If you don’t understand why this has the potential to be used for grooming your are incredibly naive. Do you have any idea how prolific child abuse in school is? Jfc I am genuinely shocked when I read stuff like this from other parents.

6yo boys fiddle with their bits, yes, but wanking? Really?

Also teachers know their classes they wouldn't use this tool if they thought it would offend or upset the kid

Oh for goodness sake, no they don’t. They have no idea clearly, as i think most kids would hate this. Teachers shouldn’t be deciding what children’s sexual boundaries are.

I had a teacher at secondary who would have loved to use titillating material with girls in his class.
I'm sure the breed has not died out.

when you read threads like this, you really do realise how unquestioning people are.

teachers given this dice - unthinking 'oh yeah it must be cool.'

teachers give the lesson to kids- parents - 'oh yeah it must be cool.'

i mean really, its a problem across society right now, but whatever happened to critical thinking?

[quote VashtaNerada]@veza09 Couldn’t agree more. We need to trust our teachers to do their job and know the children they are teaching. If that game is inappropriate for the class or doesn’t promote learning, teachers won’t use it and will choose something else to promote appropriate discussion in line with the curriculum. Honestly, the idea that teachers are using these tools to groom children are ridiculous. (Of course there have been teachers who have lost their job for that sort of thing but they don’t need a bloody dice if that’s what they’re intent on doing).[/quote]
It’s not the teachers I don’t trust it’s the content they are being told to teach. I’ve seen too many videos and read accounts of teachers having to teach issues in school or teachers being trained to teach issues in school that actually have no business being taught to children.

Just because the door has been opened to children with porn access it doesn’t mean we have to swing the door right open and introduce them to very adult activities - some activities I’d never participate in as the body was never designed for.

whatever happened to critical thinking?

Agree. I thought the decline in religious thinking was a function of critical thinking. In fact I think many people have just replaced one religion for another.

It seems people like to be told what to think and many of these LGBT lobby groups are filling the gap - the 101 genders and the millions of different sexualities and the promotion of genderwoo are just another new religion which our corporates are only to happy to adopt. Throw a rainbow on everything but don't look too hard or you'll find that teachers are being asked to normalise anal sex as a great option for girls. Ultimately this agenda has nothing whatsoever to do with LGB (and certainly not L). It's got quite a lot to do with straight men looking to dictate and control women's sex lives, for their own purposes. A lot like traditional religions.

when you read threads like this, you really do realise how unquestioning people are

My whole class of girls were indecently assaulted by our teacher. My daughter has a teacher who had been grooming girls for decades.

Why are people still insisting we need to unquestioningly trust teachers, priests, scout leaders or anything else is quite beyond me.

So what do you want them to do? Sre lessons are about safety, consent, a safe environment for open and honest discussions

Veza

The materials cited in this thread don't in anyway counter porn culture nor provoke an honest discussion. They force 13 year old children into a situation at school without their consent where they are compelled to discuss anal sex. This setting and the power imbalance between pupils and 'educators' mean they cannot refuse. As many PP have said, this material is entirely phallocentric. Why are 13 year olds being taught that anal sex is something they will have to incorporate into their sexual development? They would be much better served by being taught about their independent right to assert boundaries, refuse to participate in anything which makes them uncomfortable. This does the opposite of that. Stop pretending otherwise.

@MillyMollyFarmer

Also teachers know their classes they wouldn't use this tool if they thought it would offend or upset the kid

Oh for goodness sake, no they don’t. They have no idea clearly, as i think most kids would hate this. Teachers shouldn’t be deciding what children’s sexual boundaries are.

I honestly don't think most teachers would use it unless they were absolutely sure that the kids were ok with it. Do I like it as a stand alone resource? No. Can I see that it's trying to open up conversations? Yes. Is it the best way? Quite possibly not. I know when I was teaching secondary I always tried to be aware of the children and how they were feeling, especially the quiet ones who often get overlooked. I think it's designed to open the conversation, that is all, should we give the kids dice to play with in pair and chat among themselves? no. Should any child have to roll the dice? No. But I do think we need a way to fight the porn culture our young people are subjected to. SRE will always cover areas that some find embarrassing, don't want to talk about, should we get rid of SRE? As the kids don't consent? I think we need teachers specifically trained in SRE, taught how to discuss it all properly, I do think generally all teachers need training as different children will want to talk to different people. I think SRE should be taught in a partnership with home, so parents come in get to see and actually discuss what their children are being taught and how, see the resources and how they are actually used. I also think it should be standardised throughout the country, across all schools so the kids from the religious schools get the same education as those from none religious schools. My own SRE at a religious secondary (admittedly about 20 years ago) was horrendous, i essentially watch 3 videos with patsy pamer in who broke up with a guy, then lost her virginity in a car park to someone else and regretted forever, and a teacher drew a load of stick people on the board liking them through sex (each had sex with 3 others) put a dot on one saying it was hiv so everyone now had hiv and that's why you should wait for marriage, no consent, no contraception nothing, my mother couldn't even use the word period, never mind discuss sex, when I got my period she just said you know you can get pregnant now and that was it, never mentioned again. At least in the 90s hardcore porn wasn't so readily available so I didn't have boys pushing me to do the stuff that they see today. In my year of less than 100 kids so maybe 40-50 girls 2 left school before the end of yr11 because they got pregnant.

Nobody is suggesting no sex ed. This is not appropriate and without anything accompanying it you are simply guessing as to how much it is used or what conversation accompanies it. Several teachers who taught sex ed have stated there are massive red flags with this, why would you disagree with them?

They force 13 year old children into a situation at school without their consent where they are compelled to discuss anal sex. This setting and the power imbalance between pupils and 'educators' mean they cannot refuse

This is the biggest problem. There’s no consent from the start, to explicit sexual conversations and games.

I honestly don't think most teachers would use it unless they were absolutely sure that the kids were ok with it

How many kids will put their hand up in front of their peers and actually say ‘sorry I’m uncomfortable with this - can I leave the lesson’

Also kids might actually think they are fine but their emotional maturity really isn’t ready to deal with very adult activities.

I have a lot of respect for teachers. I trust the vast majority of maths teachers to teach maths, French teachers to teach French etc. I trust them to organise and teach a class. I do not think that teachers are any more expert on sex than parents. Like all other human adults they have their own personal experiences and morality. It's okay to say teachers need more training and it should be a specialist area but that begs the question of who the training provider would be ( hopefully not an organisation like the one behind this game). Reproduction, consent, self confidence, assertiveness, consideration, anti discrimination etc should be the foundation of sex ed. People don't need more, they can discover what they like. If porn is referred to it should be a discussion of why it can be problematic.

@BovaryX

So what do you want them to do? Sre lessons are about safety, consent, a safe environment for open and honest discussions

Veza

The materials cited in this thread don't in anyway counter porn culture nor provoke an honest discussion. They force 13 year old children into a situation at school without their consent where they are compelled to discuss anal sex. This setting and the power imbalance between pupils and 'educators' mean they cannot refuse. As many PP have said, this material is entirely phallocentric. Why are 13 year olds being taught that anal sex is something they will have to incorporate into their sexual development? They would be much better served by being taught about their independent right to assert boundaries, refuse to participate in anything which makes them uncomfortable. This does the opposite of that. Stop pretending otherwise.

As I said pervious I've not been able to read the actual bits inside the table, but just going on the table. I would never use it to tell children they should expect anal. Literally everything in SRE should focus around consent and safety. But I do think it needs to be discussed, as I said upthread 10 years ago I had 13 yr old boys telling me that if a girl says yes to sex it means anything goes, that's the direct result of porn. Boys and girls need to hear and hear it loud and clear that consent is ongoing and needed for different things. if discussing different body parts can open up further discussion around consent and that it needs to be specific I think that's a good thing. Giving kids dice and saying crack on is not. 53% of 11-16 years have responded saying they've seen porn, it's everywhere kids have access to so much, they majority know what anal etc is at 13 so that's why I think it needs to be included in SRE.