If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

@Bewareoftheblob, fwiw, we don’t have an office either. DH works from home and it’s clear he won’t be back in the office for months. He might actually never be back full time.
He works from the dinning table.
He still has been able to work in an efficient way for all the reasons mentioned by pp.

The very danger of working from home is that you need to be self motivated and stop having cups of tea/chat with whoever is at home etc.... I suspect some people would always struggle to work from home because of that.

I have actually been going back into my office in London recently two days a week as social distancing isn't an issue there and the trains are not busy at the moment.

I've tried to support the likes of Pret and Costa but many branches just aren't open. And the ones that are run a basic menu with none of my favourites on there so it doesn't exactly entice me in. Then when I did go in one Pret that was open, it quickly became very full and everyone was dodging around one another with no social distancing. Not ideal.

I think there are issues with "doing the job from India", lots of call centre type work that went there has come back, but certainly there's no need for firms to pay City wages when people could do it from anywhere in the country. It could actually be brilliant for spreading the wealth, not so good for the people currently in those roles.

If performance has been affected and the employer is able to follow the guidelines, of course staff need to go back.

Large property investors
I agree the roots of this lie with those who stand to lose out if there is a collapse in the value of commercial property
We all know the property prices, residential and commercial are an unaffordable and unsustainable, they need to come down too realistic level
No one wants to take a hit....everyone tries to kick the can down the road so that someone else has to take the hit

I thought more than 2 households aren’t allowed to meet in a pub or restaurant?

It's up to 6 if you stay outdoors. So we get takeout for lunch and either eat outdoors or in the large meeting room. We stay outside at the pub.

Within work it's all socially distanced.

Yes, I think "London weighting" will go if commuting is not required.

Well, to be blunt, if they were all so keen on WFH permanently then they should have worked harder to keep productivity up to the same standard.

@Bewareoftheblob people like your brother are not the norm. Perhaps his boss knows he’s lazy!

A lot of offices in my area (a very old city) are just converted tiny 2 bed terraces or apartments.

We barely have any large open plan offices apart from the Council - who are all working from home despite the space they have.

FWIW - I applied for a new job that is in an office. And I’m excited to have already been invited to an interview but I know they have a large office space and small team. So it’s Covideal.

@D1sc0untMeal3

My previous job was off shored to India & loads of people were made redundant. No amount of resistance would have stopped this from happening

I had to train my replacement, who came over from India ( how does one transfer 20+ years experience to someone in 3 months? - not a call centre job)

Some of my colleagues went to India for a couple of months to complete the training

It was purely a cost cutting exercise
Considerably lower wages & benefits eg company pension

More examples that I know of

UK to France
USA to Romania
UK to Singapore

I expect more jobs will be off shored in the future

^this Lots of our jobs are going thanks to globalisation. Lots of highly educated and articulate people who came here from other countries are now able to go home and continue to do the job they were doing.

I know of many organisations where almost all admin type work is being (or has been) moved out of the UK.

Srslydontgiveacrap - there’s more to life than work.

Besides, when all these jobs are offshored or automated there won’t be any work. I don’t mind having my own little farmstead and working for myself.

As for supporting pret and Costa, why should we keep unsustainable businesses artificially alive?
Why not just wake up and smell the coffee and realise that city centres will have to be repurposed?

*Srslydontgiveacrap - there’s more to life than work.

Besides, when all these jobs are offshored or automated there won’t be any work. I don’t mind having my own little farmstead and working for myself.*

Is there? Well colour me shocked.

This is really interesting because there was a question last week from someone who wanted to continue working from home and it seemed a lot more justified than your brother, at least in my opinion?

For example, she was in a manager position so was able to say with certainty that they had been as productive and in fact, possibly more productive during the pandemic, had met all milestones on time, etc. Her concerns about going back also had nothing to do with wanting to be with her family more (who doesn’t), hating her commute (who doesn’t), but more concern about the company not having done a risk assessment to re-open and not following the recommended safety measures.

I would say she INBU, and I would say your brother IBU.

@Bewareoftheblob

I think a lot of people who have been working from home have said that they have valued being able to spend more time with their families?

I'm sure they did, but employers tend to value staff who do their jobs efficiently. If your brother is so interested in spending time with his family, perhaps he could look at going part-time, or switching to a job where the employers are happy for him to WFH indefinitely?

Though I agree that the justification about Prêt and Costa, etc, is ridiculous.

People can’t have it both ways. There’s no point in telling people to go back to work if their jobs are going to be offshored or automated anyway.

Your employer cares very little about you. They will offshore or automate your role no matter how hard you work if it will save them a few quid.

With my place, I get the impression that they would rather keep us wfh.

We've been told that no one is returning until Jan 2021 at the earliest and it seems like the expense of the office at a time when income is down is a big factor. Productivity hasn't fallen as far as I can tell and it's not really an organisation where anyone takes the piss, so I guess it suits the business.

In some ways this is good - no commute better work-life balance etc. But rubbish if you are a younger person living in shared rented accommodation or if you live alone, and as much as I like wfh life I do miss the sociability of the office.

Its a really odd time for employment isn't it? I've seen recruiters say that people are asking for wfh only jobs and I reckon the big office-based orgs in this country will have to start offering this to attract the best people. Eventually, it will filter down to the rest of the UK, depending on the nature of the business.

I also worry that wfh will be used by employers as a way to drive wages down or, as the OP's brother place has said, outsource UK jobs to places with a cheaper workforce.

Do Pret and Costa pay their taxes? Or am I getting confused with another coffee chain - probably Starbucks.

We don’t have Pret in my City (or County!!). So maybe if they want new business - they ought to expand on their locations! Forward thinking and all that shiz. In fact our nearest one is at least 100 miles away!

Our Costas and Starbucks are mainly along main A roads and they’re busy as standard.

Your DB is BU.

He's less productive and has no where to work from really. During lockdown it was any port in a storm to get the work done but now they can go back to the office he needs to.

He took the job knowing about the commute and hours so no sympathy there from me.

We'd all like to work from home if it meant pottering about with family.

there’s more to life than work

There is indeed, but there's also the compromise to reach. If people don't want to work as many days, if they want shorter working days, if they want to work from home at perhaps lower levels of efficiency, then they have to accept a lower wage. Particularly London workers who enjoy higher wages/London weighting etc which will inevitably be withdrawn eventually for those choosing to work from home.

Who wants to spend hours a week commuting and sitting in a grim office? Why should people, heaven forbid, enjoy life and spending more time with family!

You can enjoy life and spending more with family if you like. You just can't expect your employer to pay you to do so.

A lot of jobs were disappearing anyway due to automation and globalisation. Covid may accelerate this or it may not. As wages equalise throughout the world there is no reason per se why the UK can't compete. Though having a shit government who don't understand business is hampering us at the moment.

Companies can save a lot of money by giving up their offices and this will be enough cost saving for some.

Srslydontgiveacrap - there’s more to life than work.

Of course there is. However, when you are working, you need to be working and clearly that is not what has been happening with the team the OP is talking about.

People can’t have it both ways. There’s no point in telling people to go back to work if their jobs are going to be offshored or automated anyway.

What do you mean? People can't work from home if their employer doesn't want them to. Regardless whether it can be done from home or not.
Not all jobs will be automated or offshored, this has been happening for decades anyway. Many offshored jobs came back.

@FluffyKittensinabasket

People can’t have it both ways. There’s no point in telling people to go back to work if their jobs are going to be offshored or automated anyway.

Your employer cares very little about you. They will offshore or automate your role no matter how hard you work if it will save them a few quid.

Absolutely.