If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

@daisypond I agree. We use chat a lot either in groups or with individuals, plus I spend a lot of time on the phone. I spend most of my day with an earpiece in, talking things through with colleagues.

+You can't put the genie back in the bottle. The shift to some people working from home far more than ever before has happened. All we can do is wait and see how that actually translates*

The genie has been let out of the bottle - just perhaps not in the way people think. If people / organisations can function as efficiently and effectively remotely rather than on site, then the work May might as well be done in lower cost destinations

Not sure trying to avoid mass redundancies is ridiculous

No it's not, but what is ridiculous is laying the responsibility onto workers to save swathes of jobs. Not everyone who commutes to the office is minted, and not everyone (even those who bought food and drink there before) will want to now they've realised how much money they've been wasting. Shopping habits do change, just like the shift from shopping solely in store to shopping online, it's normal, although covid has accelerated it. I still don't know why they ever felt one street needed 2 of the same chain when neither was busy. That over expansion did create jobs, sure, but it was never going to be sustainable in the long term, even without such a seismic change.

@Aridane pre Covid many firms have already experimented with off-shoring with variable success.

WFH doesn't mean people never meet. It's still possible to get people together for periodic team meetings. IME of off shoring what doesn't work is when any meeting requires flights & visas. Off shoring takes a lot of setting up and then a lot of maintenance.

Pre co id it was still your choice whether you buy a coffee or lunch, you didn't have to! Could always have taken your own food in, i have my own stash of herbal teabags at work for example.

Wfh does have some benefits but I notice how much less I actually move during the day. There alot more meetings now often b2b, before I would always be a few min late as I have to switch rooms often go up and down stairs etc, now I barely move between meetings, can be glued to my chair for hours in meetings.

Its not healthy plebty of studies showing that sitting down all day and theb doing exercise in the evening doesn't undo damage being done.

It might be easy for some to say well stabd up from your chair or walk about, but if you in b2b video meetings you cant.

Going bsck to work, our company is probably like to go 50/50 is saybst least 2days a week and go in for meetinfs wfh if you don't. But what will happen is people will start to want face to face meetings in person and they will end up being everyday so back to office full time

It really depends on the role and industry, no one sizs fits all

@ErrolTheDragon

personal conversations, a touch on the arm or shoulder, sometimes a hug and a tissue when tears appear.

That doesn't sound like a very professional working environment tbh. horses for courses I suppose.

In our work place, we deal with very difficult situations, difficult clients, and it's a very social / person centred environment.

Our staff and how we look out for each other is what makes it a great and supportive place to work and helps us deliver for our clients.

@daisypond

Maybe you just see someone in passing and have a chat - a phone call is different. I can think of plenty of staff who I would talk to face to face but wouldn't ring up for a chat.

If you’re a manager of a team, surely you have regular meetings or catchups with staff individually every so often. You now have these by phone instead of face to face. I really can’t see the difference. You should be phoning them up and keeping in contact just the same.

You sound like a 'silo' worker.

Just thinking about yourself and your team.
There is more to an organisation than just your team. Developing relationships with other people in the office, learning what's going on, etc.

Does your brother work for the Conservative party?

It’s hard for firms to quantify if it is working though, particularly if working with clients. Are they as happy with the service as they were? For example I work in Financial Services and a lot of the big insurance companies are working from home. One of which, a FTSE100 company has been giving a terrible service, absolutely awful. Delays at every turn. This for me means I won’t be using them again. Now does their CEO know this or is he just getting feedback from staff who are all telling him that working from home is working! Who knows.

@Jay670

It’s hard for firms to quantify if it is working though, particularly if working with clients. Are they as happy with the service as they were? For example I work in Financial Services and a lot of the big insurance companies are working from home. One of which, a FTSE100 company has been giving a terrible service, absolutely awful. Delays at every turn. This for me means I won’t be using them again. Now does their CEO know this or is he just getting feedback from staff who are all telling him that working from home is working! Who knows.

Yes, in fact there's a whole, quite long thread on AIBU about firms using the pandemic as an excuse for shoddy customer service. Of course, WFH isn't the only factor, but it is certainly one of them.

It's one thing for employees themselves to insist that their 'productivity' is better than ever WFH and they should therefore be allowed to do so indefinitely, but that's their own subjective assessment. Employers and/or clients might or might not see things quite the same way.

@chomalungma I have found that through working from home I have had a lot more contact with members of teams who tended to get missed because they were based at different sites.

I have had less contact with the team I used to sit closely to but TBH they were tending to use me rather than sort their own stuff out!

Just thinking about yourself and your team.
There is more to an organisation than just your team. Developing relationships with other people in the office, learning what's going on, etc.

Ah... Networking to get yourself up the greasy pole. Making sure you’re seen and getting to know the “right” people. The sooner that goes and people can get jobs through their talent the better.

@chomalungma

My colleagues and I call each other for a chat when we feel like it

Not a chat - just a few comments..not worthy of a phone call.
You can't see when someone is focussed on a task - whereas in the office, it's much easier to pick up on verbal cues, pick a right time

And to bond.

So you just message on Teams "Got a few minutes?"

It's not rocket science, but you do need to make some very small adaptations.

It's not unreasonable on the part of the employer. We are in a ridiculous situation where people want to work from home due to covid risk but also want to be able to go to ikea, b&q, on aeroplanes on holiday, send their kids to school, go out for lunch, dinner, the pub, the gym, the cinema, living in halls at uni. Come on - most people want to stay at home for the majority of their time because it feels less like work and fits in better with having kids. My husband employs a load of mid 20's. They are all desperate to get back to the office for their social life and because they don't live in nice big houses with gardens.

@chomalungma

I agree that on this - and other threads - where the working from home champions are out in force, A silo mentality often features

I feel like the push to get people back to work is to make sure that those rich corporate landlords don’t lose their precious rental income from offices/pret etc.

Many many Tory donors will own huge swathes of offices and other rented space. They make their money from companies renting offices and retail space in big cities.

As more people work from home, companies don’t need quite as much office space. And these Tory donors do not like what the future may hold.

Personally, I think we need a hybrid. More wfh yes but some office presence. We don’t need as much office space as a result.

Calls cut out - I had it on a customer service call recently. The lady was working from home. She could not really do the job as the line was so bad. It was much worse than a call centre call from India.
I have worked from home since 1994. I have 2 separate landlines and 2 separate broadband lines (and a mobile) to make sure comms are always working ( work for myself so pay for all that). I have a printer and a back up printer and a scanner. I am close to about 4 post offices in case I have to (every few days I do) send stuff from there.

One of my adult children cannot wait for the office to be open again. It is really difficult for lots of people to work from home due to not enough space etc.

the bottom line for employers is if productivity is down they can force people back into the office and indeed even if it is not as home working has never been a matter of choice under English law.

WFH for me means 2-3 hours less in the car. I actually have a work life balance and more disposable income as no travel costs.

Our team proved 100% that WFH home works and there was zero drop in productivity.

Sadly, it seems that our employer doesn't trust us and wants bums on seats.
We'll have to go back but I don't want to and am now actively looking for something nearer home, even if it means taking a pay cut.

I don’t think the employer is being unreasonable. People do need to get back to work for our economy’s sake. Though I don’t believe my job could be done in India at least not easily as it takes year and years of training here

@Jay670

It’s hard for firms to quantify if it is working though, particularly if working with clients. Are they as happy with the service as they were? For example I work in Financial Services and a lot of the big insurance companies are working from home. One of which, a FTSE100 company has been giving a terrible service, absolutely awful. Delays at every turn. This for me means I won’t be using them again. Now does their CEO know this or is he just getting feedback from staff who are all telling him that working from home is working! Who knows.

I had to speak to my water company a few weeks ago. I've been so impressed with their customer service over the last couple of years. It's always been excellent. This time it was dreadful. I also had a lot of trouble getting put through to a manager at another company when the initial employee wasn't able to help. It's made me realise full time wfh isn't good for customers or clients.

I'm very much in favour of temporary social distancing measures during a pandemic but it shouldn't be permanent.

Perhaps instead of people suggesting we should suck it up re mass redundancies and a giant unemployment benefit bill, company CEOs should suck it up re continuing to pay office rent as a necessary part of good business practice. For the good of the company, staff, customers, and clients - and society as a whole.

WFH permanently would be hell for lower waged and younger employees who don't have the privilege of a spacious comfy house to work from. No-one's going to be more productive whilst hunched over a bedside table in their bedroom in a houseshare or tiny studio flat.

Going forwards 50/50 with less 9-5 is the way. It's the ideal balance.

I prefer working in the office as I am a social person. Before COVID I managed a large team across the country and some home workers. It takes more effort to create team spirit in this environment but in my experience the home workers were the most productive. Perhaps because they weren't having a natter in the corridor like I was . I like to think I was networking.

I am trying to make the most of WfH and am able to slot in a regular swim way more than I did when in the office. I think overall I am more active wfh. I will do calls with team when out walking for example if it is a team building call.

I think there are lots of challenges wfh for the individual not least the health and safety and IT problems but for those that are happy and productive wfm I say let them continue. Those of use that prefer the office will also hopefully be able to go there safely.

If it can be done from home it can be done in India. Maybe, maybe not. Won't happen immediately in any case and some companies might prefer to have a workforce in a country that is similar to their customer base. And if it is going to happen it will happen regardless whether people return to the office or not.

@Iggly

I feel like the push to get people back to work is to make sure that those rich corporate landlords don’t lose their precious rental income from offices/pret etc.

Many many Tory donors will own huge swathes of offices and other rented space. They make their money from companies renting offices and retail space in big cities.

As more people work from home, companies don’t need quite as much office space. And these Tory donors do not like what the future may hold.

Personally, I think we need a hybrid. More wfh yes but some office presence. We don’t need as much office space as a result.

Equal numbers of Tory donors are CEOs of large companies who don't give a fuck about what's best for their employees (or clients), but simply want to skimp on office space.

All I can say, not having rtft, is try dealing with the accounts department of Scottish Power, outsourced to India. We asked them to explain, where the figure they said, we owed, came from - they told us they couldn't and it would take them 5 days to work out!

Look at the reviews of Scottish Power! I can honestly say, after 40 years in accountancy, looking at millions of invoices and suppliers statements; we have never been sent such incomprehensible invoices and statements! They just plucked numbers out of thin air, for the opening balances on the statements!

@Lightline

I don’t think the employer is being unreasonable. People do need to get back to work for our economy’s sake. Though I don’t believe my job could be done in India at least not easily as it takes year and years of training here

India offers access to a large pool of highly educated, highly trained workers who speak excellent English.

Many white collar jobs could absolutely be outsourced. Journalism, accountancy, law, finance, amongst others.

Gah it’s a tough one
But if the office means that efficient performance increases then it’s a no brainer
Sadly for him