If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

people having to commute to an office five days a week and living so far away from where they work was pretty stupid and unsustainable

Pretty sure there's no requirement to work a distance away from home though? People do because presumably it's either better paid or there are better opportunities, but there is still the option to work in a job closer for the vast majority if they view it more important to not have a long commute.

He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

Not surprising given he's "enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler." He wasn't at home with them, he was meant to be working.

Perhaps they should all take a pay cut to reflect the work they're actually doing.

I think the company are being totally reasonable.

Plus it isn't just commuting, in many workplaces social distancing isn't possible. Employers forcing employees to return when they could adequately work from home and not putting in place enough health and safety measures risk being prosecuted and sued if people become ill or die.

If productivity is down and complaints are up, then the WFH model isn't working for that company. So yes, they need to go back in, but for those reasons, not to save Pret.

My DH and DS1 are WFH. DH is maybe three years off retiring and is liking WFH, by and large, but he does have a study to work from. His company are happy with how it's going so I suspect they'll stay WFH.

DS1 is doing a year in industry from uni. I really wish he was in an office to get the whole vibe thing, the discipline, the interactions of an office. As it is, he's in his bedroom!

As for the 'outsourcing to India', I think that's a hollow threat. As others have said, many companies have brought their call-centres back onshore due to cultural and language difficulties.

I'm a HCP, and due to staff shortages, we've employed from overseas extensively over the past 3 years. We have 3 Indians, all properly qualified but we really struggle to understand them- frankly, it gets embarrassing sometimes. You need to be able to communicate effectively in a health-care setting.

We also had three from 'another country', but they've all been 'encouraged' to move on as their inadequate training and cultural differences lead to complaint after complaint. Hiring them was a false economy

DM link, sorry Idiot Littlejohn from his gated estate in Florida telling us to go to work to save Pret. Read the comments. Few agree with him.

Your brother is being unreasonable. His employer has requested he go back into the office, so that is what he has to do.

Companies who outsource or automate jobs cannot be surprised when nobody buys their products or services in the U.K...because nobody will have any money!

The companies I have worked for tried to offshore to India several times. Staff went over to train them, the Indian staff came to the UK to train more. But in the end, all attempts were abandoned because they couldn’t do the job -English skills are paramount. However, IT was offshored. So, it depends what sector.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

This makes him sound a bit foolish. "Enjoyed being at home"? He's supposed to be working.

Re city centre eateries suffering, people WFH means that local shops/cafes to where they live may well be benefiting. One of my clients is a tiny bakery shop in our village - sandwiches, pies, breakfast buns, coffees, etc. Their turnover has increased over lockdown and is still far higher than the same time last year - and that's with compulsory masks, queueing outside the shop (only 1 customer in at a time as it's so tiny). So, there will be winners and losers. For once it would be good if the winners were small independents who've been crowded out by the chains!

Pretty sure there's no requirement to work a distance away from home though?

Yeah sure, I'll just buy a house in central London, or try to get this type of job here. OH.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

The company are paying him to work, not enjoy himself with his wife and toddler.

He presumably accepted the job on the basis of it being office based, so he cannot demand the right to WFH indefinitely.

I wouldn't say he is workshy, but definitely a bit lazy! I know he's enjoyed getting up at 8am rather than 6am, having a longer evening etc.

As I mentioned, I don't think his living arrangements help as he has no space for an office in his house.

It's no one person's responsibility to keep jobs in the hospitality industry or any other industries associated with office working (it's not just Pret!). And it is certainly the case that we should perhaps look at work and how and where it's done. But we can't just say right, that's it, no more of those kind of jobs and expect things to be fine.

I'm a bit astounded at all the people who can't see that mass job losses will, sooner or later and one way or another, affect them too. Those people who work at pret shop, socialise, buy insurance, holidays, food, go to the gym, have their cars serviced, get a mortgage, go on days out, put their kids in after school activities etc. And all of those industries in turn have people who are not just front line holiday sales people but also employ HR, legal teams, accounts, marketing etc who in turn etc etc etc. And even if you avoid job cuts or pay cuts, what if your 850k semi in the south east is impossible to sell because no one needs to live there any more and the first time buyers (who work in low wage low security jobs are all on UC while you sneered about not propping up pret) aren't there to keep the gravy train going?

If we want the shift to happen, and I'm open to the idea, we need to think about what happens to all those displaced people, not just dismiss them.

So yes, they need to go back in, but for those reasons, not to save Pret

Or they could just find a better way of working from home with more accountability and management.

Pretty sure there's no requirement to work a distance away from home though?

Yeah, because there are lots of multi national head offices in towns and villages aren't there!

Yeah sorry that is not a reason for him to be allowed to work from home for longer. He and his colleagues are employed to do a job, clearly it is not being done so well at home if productivity is down so they need to go back into the office

working at the office shouldn't be about keeping large business bank rolled, wfh has some great attributes for employees doing much better through a better life home balance, less pollution, more productivity

I think a lot of people who have been working from home have said that they have valued being able to spend more time with their families?

I used to enjoy my commute, certainly more so than being stuck at home every day. What I wouldn't enjoy would be the fear of picking up infection en route and then spreading it to vulnerable colleagues.

What this company should be looking at is why productivity and customer service have gone down. Clearly isn't happening everywhere. Does it have to happen here? What exactly is it customers complain of? Is it that calls don't get answered or that procedures are not in place, is it a question of technology or training or of staff slacking off?

Well.... it is true that if you can do that job from home then it can be done from anywhere in the world. Have you seen the number of articles about some executives going to very nice places to work from ‘home’ during this pandemic?

The one reason companies will continue to employ people from the U.K. is if either

• they have skills that are not that easy to find
• being able to speak the ‘BRITISH’ English/knowing the country/right accent etc.. makes a difference to the customer (I’m thinking call centres etc...)

Otherwise, the pandemic has just proven that many may jobs that be done remotely, which also means from places where labour is much cheaper.

'And yes, lots of jobs which can be done remotely can be done from anywhere in the world as long as there's a decent internet connection'

But, as mentioned, it's not that easy to offshore jobs. As many a call-centre has found to its cost.

And the government could tax companies more for doing so.

Who wants to spend hours a week commuting and sitting in a grim office? Why should people, heaven forbid, enjoy life and spending more time with family!

I think employers need to focus on productivity, to an extent having a happier workforce improves productivity but if they’ve seen a measurable decline during Covid they are fully justified in moving back to 100% office working. Yes it’s nice to work from home full time for some people, but frankly I’d like to work one day a week and be paid for five, so it’s not really about what you personally prefer, it’s about what will help the company survive in these crazy times. I do think people can be quite entitled about this. They’ve got used to working from home and get annoyed when it ends, when they should be grateful to have a job at all. A good employer would probably try and find a compromise so they didn’t lose talent, like working from home 1-2 days a week, but it’s a privilege that shouldn’t be taken for granted and requires productivity equal to that in the office.

If he wants to stay wfh he needs to get his arse in gear and make sure he's doing a damn good job to prove to his boss that it won't affect the business. He could probably make his own case if he was the top performer.

Yeah sure, I'll just buy a house in central London, or try to get this type of job here. OH..

But you could get a job closer, you just don't want to because presumably pay is worse or you can't work in the sector you want. So the balance of that is a commute, but it's still a decision you have made at some point. Although admittedly it's very good for people up North etc who if fully wfh can apply for the better paid jobs down south (although wages wouldn't have to be as high, so probably not as good of a deal as now).

Who wants to spend hours a week commuting and sitting in a grim office? Why should people, heaven forbid, enjoy life and spending more time with family!

It's WORK! If the employer wants you back, you go back. Presumably they were happy to work in the office when they took the job.