If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

If productively is down I can see why the company want the staff back in. He can't expect them to keep paying him the same to do less work so he can have an easier life.

However it irks that I'm losing so many personal and role related positives just to prop up Leon and Eat. If the new normal requires a shift in the economy which doesn't include sandwich shops in their thousands in town centres then let's just make the change...?

It's really easy, though, isn't it to suggest that other people should 'make the change' and lose their jobs? 'A shift in the economy' is a very nice euphemism for mass unemployment for workers that were already low-paid with little security.

I think your brother should get his arse back to work

@MarkRuffaloCrumble

Why are they not doing an efficient job WFH? Those I know who have been WFH have found themselves busier than ever, because they’re not wasting time getting to meetings, chatting with colleagues, being interrupted while trying to get a piece of work done by a hundred questions about something else etc

If your DB is less productive without having to commute and without the distractions of office life, he’s doing it wrong, so yes, he should go back to the office as he clearly works better in a supervised environment. Or at least the majority of his colleagues do.

The only defense of him I have is that they live in a two up two down, so there is no office space or dining room he can take over for office space. He works in the living room or in the bedroom.

My adult DS would be back at work tomorrow if his company allowed it.
However it is the social distancing rules that are currently being applied. I am not sure whether these rules have been ordered by the Gov, or that the company is concerned about any Corporate liability if any of the employees became sick, etc
So far, I have heard of desks being more spaced out with plastic screens, a one way system around the office, with a designated entrance and exit, no collaboration at the deask, no mentoring at the desk, kitchens closed with kettles locked away, only 2 people in the lift at once, (he works on the 6th floor). If they introduce masks as well, it will obviously not encourage anyone to return.

I commute but I eat at pret about once a year, and have never been in Costa because I dont drink coffee. Even if people go back to offivesthey might not have the same income to spend on incidental purchases.

I've WFH for 25 years - in a sense 'offshore' because although we have offices in the U.K., the rest of my team is is in California. Some jobs depend on specific skills, not location. And if you want to keep such a job then you have to do it, and put in a bit of extra effort on communicating effectively. Which is fine, because I'm saving so much time not commuting.

When my DD started school and I realised that this didn't mesh with full time working, I dropped yo half time. I didn't do a half-arsed job spending more time with my family but drawing full pay.

Either work from home at full efficiency, or accept a pay cut in line with what you're actually doing, otherwise expect to have to go back into the office (health reasons excepted on the latter). Don't take the piss!

If he dislikes the commute he can aim to find a job closer to home, guessing he travels because there are limited opportunities and probably less money closer, but its worthwhile if he wants less of a commute to be guaranteed. I don't agree that everything will be outsourced, but certainly with 100% WFH some jobs would be lost, and wages are likely to drop where geography isn't a constraint even just within the UK. Essentially as long as they are 'covid safe' they can enforce everyone to come back into the office, the options for people who don't want to are limited.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

Yeah sorry that is not a reason for him to be allowed to work from home for longer. He and his colleagues are employed to do a job, clearly it is not being done so well at home if productivity is down so they need to go back into the office

I don't really understand why everyone thinks going back is for Pret and Costa? I mean, sure, these are two companies that are impacted but loads and loads of chains AND independents are smashed into small areas to support workers and they're all suffering. Please don't think it's just about fat cats pret and therefore we shouldn't care.

Having said all that, I've said for years that our commuting culture in this country is ridiculous and that businesses should be trying to be a bit cleverer about it. Whether that's encouraging part time working from home, part time working regional hubs etc. And I truly believe that if this was done cleverly, we'd also see improvements in local economies.

@SpaceOP Totally agree on independents being affected.

The phrasing brother's boss used was apparently that people were losing 'McJobs' because of the lack of commuters...

Our team's taken the iniative to set up the way we want to work now. We book a big meeting room once a fortnight and have a full day workshop planning work, digging into problems and sharing info. We get lunch together and go to the pub after. Then we WFH the rest of the time. It's been twice now and it's really making a difference to our effectiveness vs 100% WFH. We are hoping if we've already established something that works, it'll influence the direction the company decides to take.

I think most people will be bringing a flask and a packed lunch to work to save money. Especially when the mass layoffs start. Why spend £10 a day on food when you can bring your own?

efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

Well there you go. The team as a whole has performed poorly working from home. Customer service has been affected, which will in turn affect sales and profits.

Back to work he goes.

And yes, lots of jobs which can be done remotely can be done from anywhere in the world as long as there's a decent internet connection.

Blibbyblobby - I thought more than 2 households aren’t allowed to meet in a pub or restaurant?

Your brother is being unreasonable, everyone would love to work at home and see their family more but realistically that can not be accommodated for every job role and as you have already said the customer service being given is below normal standard.

We have employees and if they turned round and said they didn’t want to work in the office anymore as they had got use to working from home and were now causing problems and finding excuses they would be shown the door very quickly.

Your brother needs to go back to working in the office when they want he is lucky to have a job.

My previous job was off shored to India & loads of people were made redundant. No amount of resistance would have stopped this from happening

I had to train my replacement, who came over from India ( how does one transfer 20+ years experience to someone in 3 months? - not a call centre job)

Some of my colleagues went to India for a couple of months to complete the training

It was purely a cost cutting exercise
Considerably lower wages & benefits eg company pension

More examples that I know of

UK to France
USA to Romania
UK to Singapore

I expect more jobs will be off shored in the future

Ive said something very similar to dh this morning

The media and government seem to be doing a furlough/WFH Workers are lazy, work avoiding and cowards (which is a weird one but i got that from the Mail)

I said to dh that they don’t seem to realise that all employees are at the beck and call of their employers (to a greater or lesser extent) if they refuse to go back to work they can be sacked

Then your brother ruins my point 😀

I see both sides but if he is required to go back to the office that should be the end of the matter, plenty of people are looking for jobs at the moment

@SpaceOP

I don't really understand why everyone thinks going back is for Pret and Costa? I mean, sure, these are two companies that are impacted but loads and loads of chains AND independents are smashed into small areas to support workers and they're all suffering. Please don't think it's just about fat cats pret and therefore we shouldn't care.

Having said all that, I've said for years that our commuting culture in this country is ridiculous and that businesses should be trying to be a bit cleverer about it. Whether that's encouraging part time working from home, part time working regional hubs etc. And I truly believe that if this was done cleverly, we'd also see improvements in local economies.

Fully agree. Covid will undoubtedly result in more staff working from home - some jobs/firms/people are more suited to it than others and the last few months have been a brilliant trial run. But it won't become "the new normal" - some roles are more suited to traditional office environments. In particular, firms who do a lot of in house on the job training - such as accountants/auditors - I've read that PWC are continuing to have trainee accountants in offices working alongside experienced staff - you really can't give some kinds of "on the job" training effectively from a distance.

A big yes too to a return to smaller regional offices/hubs. Big firms always used to have offices in larger towns and cities up to the past couple of decades when they moved to huge centralied London centric head offices. It's caused a massive brain drain from the regions into the City leaving regional town centres dying, and resulting in London being even more congested, expensive, etc.

Now we have the internet, online meetings etc., there's no reason why all a firms' staff need to be in one huge building in London. The staff could easily work in smaller, local hubs so you have them collaborating together in person, AND have the ability for online meetings etc with other hubs as necessary. Best of both worlds.

Jobs will be offshored or automated if people go back to the office or not. It’s about cost savings.

The country is screwed as there won’t be any jobs or tax payers left and it’s not the fault of people WFH.

If people to continue to work from home (as many will have to for at least some of the week) then there will be a readjustment and local high streets will do better.

Everyone commuting on public transport en masse again even in masks will surely cause a spike in Covid cases.

And for a lot of jobs, people having to commute to an office five days a week and living so far away from where they work was pretty stupid and unsustainable anyway, as was people buying takeaway lunches and coffee all the time.

Large property investors are really worried about people not returning to their overpriced office space to work.

Eventually people working from home will venture out and spend money in other places as they work from home - the economy will change and this is what the larger investment companies are worried about.

If people don't return to work places soon then the companies could realise they don't need to spend £££££ on office space and down size elsewhere

My company are phasing return to work. Its limited and thats unlikely to change because there just isn't the capacity in the office for everyone and maintaing social distancing / covid measures that are needed.

We are being encouraged to return on a part time basis. I think that yes whilst we can wfh we are missing the collaroration and team work and so its less good overall and certainly in the long term not viable to work 100% from home. Long term I anticipate a fully blended model with prevail with folks spending 2/3 days in the office and 2/3 days wfh.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

So he wants to WFH because it suits him? Yeah it doesn't work like that!!

Your brother sounds like he’s workshy. If he’s confident enough to go out and about everywhere else then he can get his lazy arse to the office.