To feel so angry at the prospect of a no deal Brexit

[toastmeahotcrossbun]

The clock is ticking now and this looks like the most likely scenario. It's not fair on the almost half the population who voted remain, and it's not fair even on those who voted leave because it's so different from what they were promised. And, to inflict this on the country in the middle of the pandemic is the last thing we need.

Does the poster that mentioned cladding realise that the UK government has mooted cutting red tape on planning? Post Brexit world isn’t going to benefit ordinary folk.

@Hardbackwriter

I should be angry but I'm just really sad. It's so needless, so pointless and there will be no way back from the damage it causes.

I have to admit at some professional fascination as a historian who has worked on the formation of popular memory and myths; I thought I knew about these processes but watching such recent history being rewritten in front of our eyes, as the government just lies about what was said in 2016 until many people begin to believe that what they're saying is true, has been a real education.

I'm not a historian at all but it's been eye-opening to see the way such huge swathes of the population have been persuaded to vote for something that is against their own interests. How quickly and easily people are persuaded to think of Europeans as "other". Also how, even with video of Dominic Cummings giving a talk on how he manipulated the people to vote for Brexit, I have yet to see one person admit that they were manipulated. It was all done so cleverly that people really think they all thought of this themselves. Even though the polls clearly show that before the campaign stepped up barely anyone gave the EU a second thought and Nigel Farrage was almost universally derided.

Survival of the richest.
Yes

However I’m not willing to spend the rest of my life kvetching about it in paroxysms of how shit everything will be and how the world would be a better place if only common folk could acquire my superior wisdom. Take a look at yourselves FFS. Ironic that the mature and pragmatic attitude has become the incredible one.

So nobody's allowed to complain about our country being ruined or that it's going to be shit It's not superior wisdom to follow the news. Some people who want and will benefit from Brexit are far from 'common' they're very very rich, and will get richer from playing the markets.

I feel this talk from DC should be essential viewing to anyone who wants to understand how we've ended up where we are now...

Incredibly, calling them all fuckwits and implying they are pawns of the ruling classes like some third rate A-level politics student just has them sticking their fingers up and voting the same way again

which I've literally never done. I'm actually complaining about the government.

Fuck 'em. They wanted this.

Convincing them they’re wrong is going to be difficult and calling them all thick and racist won’t help any more than
gnashing your teeth over it years after the event

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. FWIW once the country's fucked I think it may well become pretty evident to people that they've been duped.

The USA are pissed off with the French for giving state aid to Airbus which they believe disadvantaged Boeing.

The US appealed to the WTO who agreed with them and on which basis the US are permitted to take retaliatory action.

Consequently the USA imposed tariffs of over a £billion on EU products, and are talking about increasing this even more.

We can't expect to print and throw money at industry in order to get one over on the EU. The much vaunted WTO has rules preventing this, and permitting the victim to retaliate.

I keep being surprised that people don't recognise that "don't call me stupid, if you call me stupid I will vote against my interests as a fuck you" is regarded by anyone as anything other than proof of fucking stupidity.

The last election was literally about getting Brexit done at any cost. Were you in denial??

it’s does seem quite likely we’ll be hearing about those thick racists with the temerity to vote contrary to your wishes for some time.

Which is a pity, when we should be hearing about how they were cynically manipulated by an illegal election campaign managed by a psychopath.

There’s a hell of alot of victimhood from the “winners”. Everybody else is just worried about potential food and medicine shortages. Which seems reasonable given they are both quite important to a society that values life.

The last election was literally about getting Brexit done at any cost. Were you in denial??

At any cost? Oven Ready Deal anyone??

Right, we should totally demand IQ tests for voters. Disenfranchise the stupid! That’ll learn ‘em!

Right there you're letting the real nutters walk away scott free.

They love that sort of rhetoric because while you're picking fights with the remain voters, those who lied and illegally manipulated the public into voting for something that wasn't in their best interest are quietly getting on with their work 'running' the country.

the “global financial crisis” was blamed for Brown’s money spunking ways right up until a couple of years ago, so it’s does seem quite likely we’ll be hearing about those thick racists with the temerity to vote contrary to your wishes for some time.

That's funny because I could swear it was the other way around. And austerity worked so well didn't it? The deficit was completely cleared by 2015 as promised? I assume you'll be blaming the current levels of debt on the current government and not the global pandemic? It's only fair...

:35RunningAwaywiththeCircus

"Complain all you like @toastmeahotcrossbun but a more tactical approach would be to try winning people over to your way of thinking."

Not much point now. Brexit is done, transition arrangements end next year and the govt has a big enough majority to do whatever it wants for the next few years. We've crossed the Rubicon so to speak arguing over why we did it isn't going to change it.

I WAS a remain voter. Just not the type of remain voter who enjoys wallowing in petty grievances against imagined stereotypes in an echo chamber of self-pity and imagined intellectual superiority

Superior to other remain voters (as you perceive them) then, ironically

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus

Oh FFS. I voted remain. I was disappointed with the result, not least because it’s caused a fucktonne of extra work for me in renegotiating contracts.

But Brexit has happened already. Any “no deal” is going to pretty fucking toothless since we can carry on negotiating (or not) after the deadline. If EU Regs are so much “better” than our own, anyone care to guess how the Grenfell cladding got regulatory approval? Myopia on both sides of this debate.

Sorry to disappoint Fellow remainers wanking themselves blind at the idea of medicine and food shortages. The border measures being put in place for imports seem quite sensible to me. Of course we can expect the EU to make exports as difficult as possible, and to be obstructive, but ultimately that’s just grist you the mill for the Brexiters so be careful what you wish for.

Incidentally my DH (BAME, Muslim, immigrant) voted leave and whilst we are still arguing over whether or not that was a smart move, it definitely was not a racist one.

NO-ONE wants medicine and food shortages to happen. I keep saying that I want Brexit to work out precisely because I DON'T want medicine and food shortages, nor do I want people to lose jobs. The thought of food bank use going up and friends of mine becoming ill or even dying as a result of not getting their meds in time (no, I'm not exaggerating) is not a pleasant one.

arguing over why we did it isn't going to change it.

Exactly. But as yet, we have a few months left to negotiate a deal. That could theoretically be done, rather than the no deal which it looks like we'll get. People are entitled to be annoyed if no deal is negotiated, given the position it will leave our country in and given the real impacts on all our citizens

tbh annoyed is too mild a word. I'm raging about it.