To feel so angry at the prospect of a no deal Brexit

[toastmeahotcrossbun]

The clock is ticking now and this looks like the most likely scenario. It's not fair on the almost half the population who voted remain, and it's not fair even on those who voted leave because it's so different from what they were promised. And, to inflict this on the country in the middle of the pandemic is the last thing we need.

Polls suggested that remain would win the first time, too.

No they didn't. This is yet another Leave lie you have swallowed.

@KenDodd

Other remainers labelling leavers as right wing bigots

Most people I know irl who voted Leave ARE racist. Proper unashamed "they should all fuck off home" racist and they've got a lot worse over the last four years, they never used to be nearly this bad. Before the referendum they didn't dare say what they really think about immigrants or BAME people, they can now and they've got a government they like doing what they want. Now I know this won't be everyone's personal experience, but it is mine. Also, I follow leave groups on Facebook, the racism is AWFUL. If you can't see how racism was a significant factor in the Leave win you are being deliberately blind. Anyway, they won and we are where we are.

I have yet to meet a leave voter IRL who hasn't expressed some sort of at least xenophobic opinion at some point. Now, my study size is small and I am sure not all leave voters are racists. But pretty much all racists I have met were leave voters.

@KenDodd

Polls suggested that remain would win the first time, too.

No they didn't. This is yet another Leave lie you have swallowed.

...I voted remain.

Oops didn't finish my post!
I voted remain. I knew in my gut that leave would win.
Pretty much every poll published suggested that remain would narrowly win.

Yanbu OP. It’s going to be extremely shit. Once the supply chains are demolished and the shops are half empty and “stuff” in general becomes much dearer and harder to find, the trouble will start. I disagree with pp that the blame will fall on the Scots and Irish, I think it will be the big bad Eu’s fault, and then we will see widespread, open racism towards anyone who’s not of white, British origin. A wet dream for Farage and ahhh Tommeh I’m sure.

Look, I'm a proper lefty snowflake and I'm very, very pro-Remain. However, the last election (though I found it incredibly depressing) was a strong mandate for the government and, by extension, Brexit. I think they've done a shocking job overall anyway and I think they've been scandalously, dangerously bad re: Covid, education, the NHS etc. So I appreciate that I'm coming from this from a certain standpoint!

But... given that Brexit is going to happen, isn't there a decent argument for campaigning for a short delay? We're in such a piss-poor economic position right now, going into winter with this hanging over our heads just seems insane. I know there's a block of Brexiters who are totally 'do or die' who would think it was beyond the pale to delay, but those of you who voted Leave, would you be really upset if there was a short delay so negotiations could continue, or so we could at the very least make up for the delays caused by Covid and repair the economy a little so we're cushioned from the shock a bit more?

If you can't see how racism was a significant factor in the Leave win you are being deliberately blind.

Eh? That there is part of the problem. I didn't mention the wide variety of reasons people voted leave. I was responding to the post by toast which demonstrated remainer disdain for the opinions of others, which I have a particular bugbear about.

You are having an argument in your own head, with somebody who isn't me who holds views that aren't mine and then you have a go at me for being blind for holding these views I have never expressed but you have decided I hold.

That kind of thing is what pisses off the ordinary people. And me.

I just cannot understand all the vitriol aimed at Cummings. He was/is employed to do a job. Why is the fact that he was/is successful at his job and helped to achieve the result he was tasked to do so galling to so many people?

If I behaved unlawfully at work, got caught (both of which VoteLeave did) I would expect to be fired. To be doing a good job you need to be acting legally.

Pretty much every poll published suggested that remain would narrowly win.

No they didn't, polls flip flopped between Leave and Remain winning. As I said, this was yet another Leave lie.

ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

However, the last election (though I found it incredibly depressing) was a strong mandate for the government and, by extension, Brexit.

This is a fair observation if brexit was an even remotely defined thing rather than a broad spectrum, from mildly negatively impacting to catastrophic, with corresponding benefits ranging from possibly-some to nil.

Some wanted a no-deal 'stick it to the nasty EU' brexit but many many others, even at the election, wanted/were led to believe they could have, a good brexit deal. "The easiest deal in history" and all that.

So in the same way the referendum question was flawed, there question being asked at the GE was no better.

@CrunchyNutNC

However, the last election (though I found it incredibly depressing) was a strong mandate for the government and, by extension, Brexit.

This is a fair observation if brexit was an even remotely defined thing rather than a broad spectrum, from mildly negatively impacting to catastrophic, with corresponding benefits ranging from possibly-some to nil.

Some wanted a no-deal 'stick it to the nasty EU' brexit but many many others, even at the election, wanted/were led to believe they could have, a good brexit deal. "The easiest deal in history" and all that.

So in the same way the referendum question was flawed, there question being asked at the GE was no better.

Yes, good point, I agree that Brexit is and has been a tragically ill-defined thing. I guess I was just trying to pre-empt any 'we won get over it'-type comments as that's been the thing that's driven me crazy the whole way through. YES we know you won, now can we define what you've won and how we're going to sort it out?

If I behaved unlawfully at work, got caught (both of which VoteLeave did) I would expect to be fired. To be doing a good job you need to be acting legally.

Cummings was also found to be in contempt of parliament in 2019

I'm not trying to rehash the leave/remain argument. We have already 'left' the EU. What we do not have is any sort of trade deal, and it looks as though we will not be able to negotiate one, leaving ourselves high and dry, and for what? I truly do not believe that virtually anybody voted for what is about to happen. Some people can't see the shit about to hit the fan.

Given the number of u turns and populist driven policies who knows what will happen. My guess is the U.K. will start begging for an extension in late Autumn.

My guess is it will just be a massive cock up a la care homes, PPE, A levels and we will be deeply in the shit come Jan/Feb

My guess is the U.K. will start begging for an extension in late Autumn.

I don't. I think we'll crash out with no deal so BJ and co can save face. The consequences will be blamed on anyone except themselves cheered on by the rightwing press. The most depressing thing is that their supporters will swallow it and the people who drove this (and in some cases stand to profit) will walk away scott free. I worry most for Ireland.

I've met some Leavers who aren't racist, xenophobic or conservative - they tend to be Lexiters who are anti-EU because it's neoliberal/racist/they don't like the way it treats migrants or encourages the exploitation of migrant workers from poorer countries. Tony Benn was a famous one.

As for the NI problem, it's because Brexiters either haven't thought about it, didn't know about how Brexit would affect it, or couldn't give two shits about it. I hope I'm wrong on the last count.

I'm not trying to stir up wank, but can anyone give me a positive outcome of a no deal Brexit? Are there any? I mean people voted for Brexit because they hoped to gain from it, surely?

Agree no deal is likely and as other posters have said COVID provides ample cover for the mess coming in early 2021. Job losses are now the norm and people have already had experience of food shortages.

@TorkTorkBam

Do you think remain would win if there were a referendum based on what we all now know?

I don't. I am a remainer. I think leave would win again. Likely with a larger margin.

Remainers look even more like an out of touch liberal elite now. I am a remainer. I am one of the 1%. I have libertarian politics.

Other remainers labelling leavers as right wing bigots while hand wringing about how awful it is that the right thinking people aren't being allowed to over rule the peasants pushes more people towards leave.

There are plenty of people who want the liberal elite to know they won't be pushed around. They do not like being told they must be right wing extremists if they disagree with the elite.

What liberal elite? The Tories? Who are this liberal elite people keep banging on about?

As for the NI problem, it's because Brexiters either haven't thought about it, didn't know about how Brexit would affect it, or couldn't give two shits about it. I hope I'm wrong on the last count.

Thing is, they know now, they even saw Lyra Kckee murdered, that knowledge hasn't moved the needle at all. I suspect, sadly, they don't give a shit. I've never met a leave voter irl who does and in all the years on MN have only seen one Brexit supporter (proper 'no deal' Leaver) saying the peace and the GFA is more important than Brexit.

Bloke on TV the other night said it right, come 1 Jan 2021 the UK will be the first country in history to impose economic sanctions on itself.

We elect MEPs.

^ Pressed send in error. Here's what I was trying to say

I couldn’t care less really. Don’t want unelected (by us) politicians from other countries making decisions about our country

Good grief. People still believe this! Our MEPs are elected and work with the rest of the European Parliament. We have not lost a vote and had to accept anything this country did not want until the Tax Avoidance Directive came through. Our government did not want their friends being stopped avoiding tax and voted against this directive. And lost.

Apart from that; here we have government being run by a SPAD (Special Advisor) who was very definitely not elected. Cummings anyone?

YANBU! I mean one more crushing blow is what we need to perk up our ailing economy, amirite? I mean "taking back control" or something .

The Expr*ss two years later. Project fear becoming reality. Yet of course, the EU is being blamed.